Temperature and molecular Kinetic Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature and the kinetic energy of molecules, particularly addressing the implications of bulk motion versus vibrational motion in a substance. Participants explore the conceptual understanding of temperature in the context of kinetic energy, questioning the validity of the statement that temperature measures average kinetic energy.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assertion that temperature measures average kinetic energy, citing an example of a jar of water in a moving car that does not increase in temperature despite an increase in kinetic energy.
  • Another participant suggests that the kinetic energy associated with bulk motion is distinct from the vibrational kinetic energy relevant to temperature, emphasizing that temperature pertains to the random motion of particles in the object's rest frame.
  • A third participant introduces the concept of heat as energy statistically distributed among particles, referencing a specific text for further exploration of thermodynamics and statistical mechanics.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the rest frame of the car and how it affects the perception of velocity and kinetic energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between temperature and kinetic energy, with some agreeing on the distinction between vibrational and bulk motion, while others remain uncertain about the implications of their examples and explanations. The discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of rest frames in understanding kinetic energy and temperature, indicating that assumptions about motion may influence interpretations. The discussion remains open to further exploration of these concepts.

ChrisXenon
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We are told that temperature measures the average kinetic energy of the molecules or atoms in a substance, but this cannot be true.
If I take a jar of water and put the jar in my car and drive it aorund, it won't get hotter, though it's kinetic energy must surely be higher.
Clearly, I've got something wrong here - is it due to the fact that there's a vague notion that this average kinetic energy is vibratory? Or something else?

Thanks
 
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ChrisXenon said:
We are told that temperature measures the average kinetic energy of the molecules or atoms in a substance, but this cannot be true.
If I take a jar of water and put the jar in my car and drive it aorund, it won't get hotter, though it's kinetic energy must surely be higher.
Clearly, I've got something wrong here - is it due to the fact that there's a vague notion that this average kinetic energy is vibratory? Or something else?
You pretty much have it; the vibration (or bouncing around of gas molecules) is random and only relevant for the object's/gas's rest frame. The kinetic energy of bulk motion is separate.
 
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Heat is energy which is statistically distributed over all particles. Maybe, the following (“Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics” by Walter Greiner, Ludwig Neise, Horst Stöcker) might be of help:
Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics
 
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ChrisXenon said:
If I take a jar of water and put the jar in my car and drive it aorund, it won't get hotter, though it's kinetic energy must surely be higher.

@russ_watters already mentioned the object's rest frame.

Have you considered that the car's velocity in the car's rest frame is zero. Or that the car's velocity relative to another car driving the same direction decreases as the car accelerates from a stop?
 
BAM! Outstanding. Thanks guys. I'm sorted.
 

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