The 2003 Alternate Realities Conference

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
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175

Main Question or Discussion Point

"The first speaker was a man named Jeffery Morgan Foss from Massachusetts. He was a former alien abductee and this was the first time he was going public with his story. His tales of decades of abduction were accompanied by some Corel Draw illustrations he had on a DVD."

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/08/03/3f2da83964ea8 [Broken]
 
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Answers and Replies

  • #2
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1,277
Jeffrey Foss Morgan doesn't know
it but, like alot of these "abduc-
tees with elaborate stories, he suffers from seizures in his Tem-
poral Lobes.

Author Whitley Strieber has been
officially diagnosed with this
particular seizure disorder, he
admits he has it, but he doesn't
see any connection between it and
his his abduction experiences.

Jeffrey reports himself to be
very interested in details, and
collected an amazing amount of
detail about the measurements of
the rooms in the crafts he was taken aboard. The writer of the
story comments on how irrelevant
these measurements are to anything.

In fact, though, they constitute
a big, bold-faced arrow pointing
at temporal lobe seizures. A large
percentage of people with these
seizures develope alterations in
their personalities. A common one
is that they become meticulous,
and detail-oriented. They are
likely to step from detail to detail, losing sight of any overall course, and come off in general as meandering thinkers.

If we were to see Jeffrey or
Whitley during a seizure there
would be no convulsions or muscular involvement at all. They
would simply appear to be "spaced
out" - staring at nothing with di-
ated pupils, non-responsive, or
incompletely and peculiarly re-
sponsive like a sleepwalker.

-zoob
 
  • #3
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
175
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Jeffrey Foss Morgan doesn't know
it but, like alot of these "abduc-
tees with elaborate stories, he suffers from seizures in his Tem-
poral Lobes.

Author Whitley Strieber has been
officially diagnosed with this
particular seizure disorder, he
admits he has it, but he doesn't
see any connection between it and
his his abduction experiences.

Jeffrey reports himself to be
very interested in details, and
collected an amazing amount of
detail about the measurements of
the rooms in the crafts he was taken aboard. The writer of the
story comments on how irrelevant
these measurements are to anything.

In fact, though, they constitute
a big, bold-faced arrow pointing
at temporal lobe seizures. A large
percentage of people with these
seizures develope alterations in
their personalities. A common one
is that they become meticulous,
and detail-oriented. They are
likely to step from detail to detail, losing sight of any overall course, and come off in general as meandering thinkers.

If we were to see Jeffrey or
Whitley during a seizure there
would be no convulsions or muscular involvement at all. They
would simply appear to be "spaced
out" - staring at nothing with di-
ated pupils, non-responsive, or
incompletely and peculiarly re-
sponsive like a sleepwalker.

-zoob
After years of reading and listening to alleged abduction victims, I still don't know what I think. Surely we have people who are ill, lonely, or who have some particular physical problem such as those cited by you. I can imagine many reasons for the stories reported. I tend to dismiss most of these stories outright.

My only objection to what you've said here is this: Skeptics seek to use any explanation as an explanation. This is just as unscientific as it would be to just believe all of the stories. It is important to remember that science is about what can be tested. It is not implicitly about "the truth". If the truth cannot be tested, then it does not qualify as science. We have no good way to address these kinds of issues. I remain open to the possibilities unless and until we have answered the question of the origins of UFOs.

I can guarantee that not all alleged abduction victims have brain seizers or temporal lobe problems. Also, let’s just assume for a moment that these people really were abducted. What physical effects can we expect to find? Could something like this make you a little nuts? Would you likely sound like a nut if you told anyone about your experiences?
 
  • #4
6,265
1,277
Ivan,

I'm not a skeptic. I started out
believing all abduction stories.
Then I realized some could be
better acounted for by seizures.
Then I found out more about seizures and realized most could
be better acounted for by seizures. Persinger really sews
up all the loose ends. I was never
out looking for a way to explain
abductions away.

Being abducted could make a person
nutty but most abductees don't
come off as nutty: they don't seem
emotionally off or out of touch
with reality in general the way
a mentally ill person does. The
main problem is the content of
what they're saying.

Whitley Strieber speaks very
articulately in an even tone even
when mentioning in passing how he
once noticed a creature with bat-
like wings standing on the roof of
his house.

And, you cannot guarrantee all
abductees are not having seizures
for the same reason I cannot guarratee they all are.

-zoob
 
  • #5
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
175
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Ivan,

I'm not a skeptic. I started out
believing all abduction stories.
Then I realized some could be
better acounted for by seizures.
Then I found out more about seizures and realized most could
be better acounted for by seizures. Persinger really sews
up all the loose ends. I was never
out looking for a way to explain
abductions away.
I have seen many stories sewn up according to the evidence carefully selected. Typically, for every explanation offered, I can offer two examples of someone who defies this explanation.

Being abducted could make a person nutty but most abductees don't come off as nutty: they don't seem emotionally off or out of touch with reality in general the way a mentally ill person does. The main problem is the content of what they're saying.

Whitley Strieber speaks very articulately in an even tone even
when mentioning in passing how he once noticed a creature with bat-
like wings standing on the roof of his house.
And, you cannot guarrantee all
abductees are not having seizures
for the same reason I cannot guarratee they all are.

-zoob
I think we can using statistical arguments. There are just not that many people running around with undiagnosed episodes of hallucinations. Remember that psychiatrists are often who oversee these alleged victims. As professional doctors of medicine, if these accounts were all due to brain problems, then we would see more abduction victims sewing for malpractice; if not dropping dead from TIAs and the like. This explanation, like all others, ignores the facts of the phenomenon. Still, if all possible explanations are considered, then I agree that this could all be a bunch of bologna. Of course, we do have documented cases that make this conclusion precarious at best.

Also, as far at Strieber, how does this account for the testimony of his family and neighbors? Many others have witnessed strange events at the Streiber house. His children had direct encounters with the "little doctors". Does Persinger ever mention this, or is this carefully avoided?

Edit: I could believe that Strieber is lying.
 
Last edited:
  • #6
6,265
1,277
Ivan,
You write:
"There are just not that many people running around with undiagnosed episodes of hallucinations."

Unfortunatly there are more people
running around undiagnosed than
you would ever imagine. The main
reason is that people resist tooth
and nail the stigma of being labeled as "crazy". Most voluntarily seek out a doctor only
as an absolute last, last, last
resort. The ones who are both
hallucinated and delusional and
obviousy so, still go undiagnosed
because a person cannot be taken
to a psyche ward against their
will unless it can be shown they
are a danger to themselves or
others.

Seizures are more insidious than
mental illness in this regard be-
cause they are brief and isolated
events from which the person re-
covers quickly with no necessary
impairment of their overall sani-
ty.

A list of Simple Partial seizure
symptoms was made and presented
as a poll to the general popula-
tion once (Have you ever had any
of the following experiences?)
And an astonishing fifty percent
of the general population ticked
off at least one.

These people are not epileptics
and the poll isn't implying that.
Epilepsy refers to chronic seizures. It is generally reserved
or people whose seizures are the
symptom of an underlying patho-
logy.

Anyone can have a Simple Partial
seizure simply because of a com-
bination of, for instance, bad
diet, lack of sleep, and unusual
stress. It happens once in their
life and then never again.

The thing to realize is that it
flows in a smooth continuum from
those people up to people who have
been in Simple Partial Status
Epilepticus for years, with everthing in between.

Here's a paper that gives a broad,
I repeat, broad, overview of the
partial epilepsies.

eMedicine - Partial Epilepsies : Article by Selim R Benbadis, MD
Address:http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic623.htm

My sence is that you are not fam-
iliar with Persinger?

-Zooby
 

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