The Advent of Color

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LogicalAtheist

I know the defintion and general area of Existentialism. I know enough about it to know it has NO PLACE in this discussion. It's a further system you're using to justify your emotions over rationality. In no way I'm a meaning to offend you, it's simply a more unbias conclusion than yours, if ONLY that.

You said: "And do you find yourself getting disturbed very often about other people's views? Maybe you need to learn how to relax man!"

There is a problem with this. What is a view? If you mean it's an opinion, or anything similiar, then you have committed a "sin" against rule number 1.

I posted those in my sig because I knew those would be the most common errors made, as that is so with the general human species.

This issue is not an opinion. It is a fact.

Fact: I claim which is EITHER true or false
Opinion: I claim whichc arries no true or false value.

This claim, every subclaim you've made here, or facts.

You cannot say I am disturbed my your view. I am disturbed by how often humans committ the SUBJECTIVIST FALLACY.

In NO WAY is this an insult, if you take it as such, I would suggest you rethink your motives. Honestly, perhaps your emotional motives are "unconscious" as they say. Perhaps you don't recognize them as so blatant as I do?

Anyhow, have a great day! :smile:
 
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It still stands. The only scale you have ever heard music in is the western scale which contains 12 notes.

The Do re mi pattern is not a scale.
the 12 note scale simply followed guidos use of do-re-mi... notice the 12 note scale we use today includes only 7 fundemental notes, also notice that these fundemental notes are all directly from do(C)-re(D)-mi(E)-fa(F)-so(G)-la(A)-ti(B). A#,C#,D#,F#, and G# were added later. music as we know it today started out as a 7-note scale used by monks to help them memorize chants.

why are you so determined about this anyways? it was made with 7 notes for OBVIOUS religous reasons, it's not a coincedence. it's also argued by many that the color spectrum was split up specifically in 7 colors due to religios reasons, i would agree.
 
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LogicalAtheist

Hazzy - Perhaps, and no offense, but because of my musical background I am able to view what you say as incorrect because it makes many generalizations that aren't realized by people except those who have dealt with and learned music so much that they are able to view things at the highest most level.

In other words, in your post above this you make many generalizations that are incorrect. However, unless you want me to point them out, I won't as I can accept they're not known by many people unless one has quite an extensive background in music.
 
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LogicalAtheist

PS: I am determined to share knowledge, REAL knowledge with those who lack it. I naturally wish to spread knowledge, some knowledge and only to some people, so that it sooner becomes "common knowledge" that's what I'm determined to do.

There's a slight bit of rule 1 being broken, but I emphasis without offense that I wish one would accept information rather than battle it with an axe.
 
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Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
PS: I am determined to share knowledge, REAL knowledge with those who lack it. I naturally wish to spread knowledge, some knowledge and only to some people, so that it sooner becomes "common knowledge" that's what I'm determined to do.

There's a slight bit of rule 1 being broken, but I emphasis without offense that I wish one would accept information rather than battle it with an axe.
Then I suppose sometimes the best way to share REAL knowledge is by "someone else" taking an opposite stance ...

By the way, it's been my experience that God reveals Himself to you through your own experience, meaning if I had known all these other (petty) things you seem to find fault with here, strictly in an "intellectual sense," then chances are I would have overlooked something as simple as this discovery ...

While this is also where the idea of existentialism comes in, which tends to suggest everything happens as matter of course, and it isn't necessary to look much further than this to find meaning and fulfillment. You know, "One day at a time." In other words it's all about "the experience" of life itself.
 
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Originally posted by HazZy
the 12 note scale simply followed guidos use of do-re-mi... notice the 12 note scale we use today includes only 7 fundemental notes, also notice that these fundemental notes are all directly from do(C)-re(D)-mi(E)-fa(F)-so(G)-la(A)-ti(B). A#,C#,D#,F#, and G# were added later. music as we know it today started out as a 7-note scale used by monks to help them memorize chants.

why are you so determined about this anyways? it was made with 7 notes for OBVIOUS religous reasons, it's not a coincedence. it's also argued by many that the color spectrum was split up specifically in 7 colors due to religios reasons, i would agree.
Thanks again for the input! I wasn't that aware of the musical scale and color spectrum being split up specifically for religious purposes, although I had probable cause that they were -- due to the "universal nature" of the hexagram and what their relationship is to it.
 
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Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
Hazzy - Perhaps, and no offense, but because of my musical background I am able to view what you say as incorrect because it makes many generalizations that aren't realized by people except those who have dealt with and learned music so much that they are able to view things at the highest most level.
whatever generalizations you may find, you can't refute that Guido D'Arezzo invented the 7-note scale. maybe you don't understand what a scale is...

http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm [Broken]
 
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LogicalAtheist

I think my knowledge of what a scale is is as advanced as anyones could be. It's a simple concept.
 
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then why couldn't you understand the SIMPLE concept that there is a 7 note scale? seems like someone is just trying to cover up their mistakes...
 
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LogicalAtheist

There is no 7 note scale. Show me one. It doesn't exist.
 
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mm hmm....well, I'd say the diatonic scale works here. In C that's: C - D - E - F - G - A - B But, of course, the diatonic scale is a pretty rarely used scale...
 
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There is no 7 note scale. Show me one. It doesn't exist.
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm [Broken] (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)

anyone with even a basic understanding of music and/or a musical instrument knows the major scale very well. just out of sheer curiosity what kind of musical experience do you actually have?
 
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678 / One Octave

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Thanks again for the input! I wasn't that aware of the musical scale and color spectrum being split up specifically for religious purposes, although I had probable cause that they were -- due to the "universal nature" of the hexagram and what their relationship is to it.
Just for the sake of illustration, in order to show the "universal relationship" between the numbers 6, 7 and 8 (the six basic colors of the color wheel in accord with white, the seven notes of the music scale, and hence "one octave"), if you take six coins of equal diameter, say six pennys, and laid them on the table in the form a hexagram, where each penny touched the edge of the next penny, you could then place a seventh penny in the center and all pennys will still touch ... a pattern by the way (i.e., honeycomb effect), that retains its form and can be repeated unto infinity, merely by adding more pennys to "the outside." Hence illustrating the universality between a hexagram and the numbers 6 and 7.

And guess what? It also seems to incorporate the six days of Creation, as well as the seventh, where God rests on the Sabbath (within the center of the first six). Hmm ... And of course there's the obvious relation to the six basic colors and the color white. But how does this effect the musical scale you say? Well, if you were to circumscribe a circle around the original pattern of seven (including the penny in the middle), you have the eighth configuration or eighth note, and hence "one octave." And thus becomes the "embodiment" of the original seven. Hmm ... Now what is the deal about "circumcision" occurring on the "eighth day?"

Finally, if you take the "eighth note," which is also the same note as the first, except at higher level, as well as the embodiment of the seven notes as a whole (i.e., the greater circle), you can then generate a "new level" of notes and, by circumsbribing it (with an even greater circle), it becomes the next octave up ... all of which gives rise to the notion of "harmonics" ...

So can anybody see a pattern here?
 
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Alexander

Originally posted by HazZy
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm [Broken] (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)

anyone with even a basic understanding of music and/or a musical instrument knows the major scale very well. just out of sheer curiosity what kind of musical experience do you actually have?
Logic is right, there is no 7-note scale. I think you have to learn basics of music. There is 12-note scale (each note separated by EXACTLY SAME distance (2)1/12 = 1.0594631...).

Say, 440 Hz, 466.16 Hz, 493.88 Hz, 523.25 Hz, 554.36 Hz, 587.33 Hz, 622.25 Hz, 659.25 Hz, 698.45 Hz, 739.99 Hz, 783.99 Hz, 830.61 Hz, 880.00 Hz, etc.
 
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sigh... a scale is a specified scheme of intervals, the diatonic scale uses the pythagorean scale for tuning. the intervals go something like this: 9:8 9:8 256:243 9:8 9:8 9:8 256:243. and that is the diatonic scale is a nutshell. just because the chromatic scale uses 12 intervals of 256:243 doesn't make the diatonic scale any less of a scale.
 
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Originally posted by HazZy
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm [Broken] (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)

anyone with even a basic understanding of music and/or a musical instrument knows the major scale very well. just out of sheer curiosity what kind of musical experience do you actually have?
Before anyone else makes a post about the musical scale, will you please follow this link? Also, let it be known that I was not the one who brought up the musical scale, as it was not part of the original post. However, if you take the time to read the post above, regarding the numbers 6, 7 and 8 and "one octave," you'll see how easily the idea of seven notes and one octave portrays a "universal pattern."

Will try and create a picture of this and post it shortly. Thanks!
 
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Alexander

Originally posted by HazZy
sigh... a scale is a specified scheme of intervals, the diatonic scale uses the pythagorean scale for tuning. the intervals go something like this: 9:8 9:8 256:243 9:8 9:8 9:8 256:243. and that is the diatonic scale is a nutshell. just because the chromatic scale uses 12 intervals of 256:243 doesn't make the diatonic scale any less of a scale.
Do people use diatonic scale? (Compare usage of diatonic and chromatic).
 
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Originally posted by Alexander
Do people use diatonic scale? (Compare usage of diatonic and chromatic).
the diatonic scale is used far more. any time you see an orchestra practicing you'll hear the diatonic scale, anytime you here kids singing do-re-mi... you're hearing the diatonic scale.
 
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Alexander

Colors are just names for wavelengths (say, around 530nm = green, around 650nm = red, etc) what to discuss here?
 
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Alexander

Originally posted by HazZy
the diatonic scale is used far more.
Take a close look at any common musical instrument (say, a piano, violin, guitar, accordion, organ, etc) - it does not have diatonic scale.
any time you see an orchestra practicing you'll hear the diatonic scale,
Not true. Try to transpose (=to play in different pitch) any reasonable tunes on diatonic instrument. Impossible. Try to do the same on chromatic one - just fine. Feel free to start at ANY pitch.

That is why practically all instruments in orchestra are chromatic, not diatonic - because chromatic scale is INVARIANT versus transpositions, but not diatonic one. Even traditionally more primitive instruments in orchestra versions have chromatic, not diatonic scale. Sure you can find in tribal usage some primitive single-holed or double-holed flutes, but these are not what they use in orchestras.


Look at electronic keybord which simulates hundreds instruments - it does so in chromatic, not in diatonic scale. Look at synthesators. Look at software and sound boards - chromatic, chromatic and chromatic again.

anytime you here kids singing do-re-mi... you're hearing the diatonic scale.
I also hear kids saying Santa is real.
 
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Originally posted by Alexander
Colors are just names for wavelengths (say, around 530nm = green, around 650nm = red, etc) what to discuss here?
Have you read the first part of the post which refers to the colors in my avatar?

The purpose of this thread is to explore the relationship between numbers and symbolism, religious symbolism in particular, and try to give some validation as to what they mean. Got it? ...
 
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alexander you're confusing the meaning of a scale. a scale is only a subset of an octave (an octave is 12 notes -- the chromatic scale). A#-C-E-F could be a scale, but it probably wouldn't be pleasing to anyones ear. and if you ever hear an orchestra practice you will most definitely hear them play the diatonic scale. remember the diatonic scale is merely C-D-E-F-G-A-B-(C), it's used everywhere. i know that diatonic tuning is rarely used anymore, except with guitars, but that is of no importance to this subject whatsoever.
 
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Originally posted by Alexander
Take a close look at any common musical instrument (say, a piano, violin, guitar, accordion, organ, etc) - it does not have diatonic scale.

Look at electronic keybord which simulates hundreds instruments - it does so in chromatic, not in diatonic scale. Look at synthesators. Look at software and sound boards - chromatic, chromatic and chromatic again.
So what is the point in referring to the muscial scale in terms of "octaves?" (meaning eight). I guess this is kind of what threw me, and why I've always understood there were seven notes, including the eighth, which makes it "one octave."

Besides that, what else is there to discuss? This is still valid enough to demonstrate a relationship between the musical scale and the symbolism provided. There's also the primary equation 37 x 12 = 444. Where the colors yellow (3) and violet (7), in conjunction with the two colors of my avatar (to the left), correspond to the number 37. Whereas the number 12 could possbily represent the chromatic scale, in accord with the six "basic colors" divided by two: i.e., red (1), red-orange (2), orange (3), orange-yellow (4), yellow (5), yellow-green (6), green (7), green-blue (8), blue (9), blue-violet (10), violet (11), and violet-red (12). This wouldn't affect the color arrangement any, just add more enhancement (as with the musical scale).

And by the way, did you know that "chromatic" means color? Isn't that something!

Once again, to see how the colors arranged, please follow the link:

http://www.dionysus.org/7_colors.html
 
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LogicalAtheist

I find some of the musical comments here disturbingly incorrect.

How is it that one can so boldly speak of something they know nothing about? Only on the internet I presume:

the 12 note scale simply followed guidos use of do-re-mi... notice the 12 note scale we use today includes only 7 fundemental notes, also notice that these fundemental notes are all directly from do(C)-re(D)-mi(E)-fa(F)-so(G)-la(A)-ti(B). A#,C#,D#,F#, and G# were added later. music as we know it today started out as a 7-note scale used by monks to help them memorize chants.
All wrong. Do re mi is not assigned to any notes. It can be sung in any key. It's merely a template. To say it goes with the "fundamental notes" is pure idiocy. Also, the sharps and flats WERE NOT added later. Where in the hell did you here that?

mm hmm....well, I'd say the diatonic scale works here. In C that's: C - D - E - F - G - A - B But, of course, the diatonic scale is a pretty rarely used scale...
I'm hoping that's a joke?

Logic is right, there is no 7-note scale. I think you have to learn basics of music. There is 12-note scale (each note separated by EXACTLY SAME distance (2)1/12 = 1.0594631...).
Thanks Alex. Glad someone here knows anything about this.

The purpose of this thread is to explore the relationship between numbers and symbolism, religious symbolism in particular, and try to give some validation as to what they mean. Got it? ...
Sickening to hear. You are taking values out of an infinite amount of variables in the universe, plucking a few that seem to "mean something" to you, and using them as a means to prove your emotional fixation. And it's gross man, just gross.

i know that diatonic tuning is rarely used anymore, except with guitars, but that is of no importance to this subject whatsoever.
WTF????? Who in the hell ever told you the guitar is diatonic. I've played guitar for 9 years. Please apoligize for such an INCORRECT statement.

Once again. It's seriously sickening how Iacchus32 bends false and unrelated information to suit his psychological needs.
 

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