The Tragic Fate of Baltic Finnish Languages

[jtbell]

Astronuc's recent post about Dardistan and its languages reminded me of the obscure "Baltic Finnish" languages of northern Europe, basically around the Gulf of Finland (today's Finland-adjacent Russia, along with Estonia and Latvia). The Finnish and Estonian languages are alive and well, but they have several close relatives that have tenuous existence.

The Estonian composer Veljo Tormis (1920-2017) wrote a cycle of choral music, settings of folk songs in those languages: Forgotten Peoples (Unustatud rahvad, 1970-89), recorded by the Estonian Philhamonic Chamber Choir conducted by Tõnu Kaljuste, and released on a 2-CD set by the ECM label in 1992. It's apparently available on several streaming services.

• Livonian Heritage
• Votic Wedding Songs
• Izhorian Epic
• Ingrian Evenings
• Vepsian Paths
• Karelian Destiny

From Tormis's notes in the CD booklet (1992):

All of the Baltic Finns have had a tragic history; they have been trampled from both east and west by so-called liberators during the two great wars of this [20th] century. Hundreds of thousands of people were driven from their homes and scattered over the plains of Russia and Siberia, and the small groups who managed to remain are dying out. By now, all the Livonian, Votic and Izhorian singers, whose voices I still vividly remember, have passed away. I still get a Christmas card every year in Livonian, but for how much longer?

From Wikipedia:

• Livonian: the last native speaker died in 2013.
• Votic: 4 native speakers in 2021.
• Izhorian (Ingrian): 120 native speakers in 2010.
• Ingrian (dialects of Finnish): ?
• Veps: 3600 native speakers in 2010.
• Karelian: 36000 native speakers 1994-2010.

 

[Hornbein]

I have read that Lithuanians can understand Sanskrit.

There is a suburb of Detroit with the name of Livonia.

 

[pinball1970]

@artis neck of the woods too

 

[jtbell]

There is a suburb of Detroit with the name of Livonia.

I passed through there occasionally en route between Ann Arbor and Detroit, during my grad-school days. Some Googling revealed that it was named after Livonia, New York, where many of the original settlers came from in the 1830s. The town in NY was in turn apparently named after Livonia in what was then Russia. I haven’t tracked down how that came about.

 

[artis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonia



While this man largely is responsible for the official beginnings of the capital of my country - Riga city, founded in 1201.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_of_Riga

As much of the history of the Baltic states, especially in the medieval period, it is intertwined with the history of Europe and Russia. The medieval period was dominated by Germans and the crusades.
The Livonian period largely so.
We still ave a decent amount of castles and artifacts from that time left over.

Here is a video of the restoration of a big church in Riga from the Livonian times called "Rīgas doms", the building is more than 800 years old. It has survived revolutions, wars, both world wars, and the collapse of the USSR and is now back in it's former glory. On top of the spire there is a roughly 200 pound heavy gold plated rooster.
There is no English translation available but the sights are I think beautiful and therefore need no explanation. If indeed you have some questions let me know, maybe I can answer them

 

[Astronuc]

Very cool on the Livonian lessons. I'm glad it is preserved.

What is the significance of the rooster? Agrarian roots?

 

[artis]

Very cool on the Livonian lessons. I'm glad it is preserved.

What is the significance of the rooster? Agrarian roots?

There is no general significance, it is just a piece of art that originated from some medieval beliefs. Apparently there was a belief that the morning song of a rooster scares the devils away. Not sure why a christian church would base their symbols on something that is not even in the bible , but well then again the church has done many things that are not in the very book it originally based it's faith on.

Originally all Riga church towers had roosters on them, they were added sometime around the 16th century from what I have read in sources.
Riga's highest church - St. Peters church for example has had many roosters throughout the centuries, because the church tower has had several fires. In medieval times the main source of fire was lighting strikes. The lower portion of the tower was built from masonry and stone so always survived but the upper part was made from wood so always burnt down.
The last time it burnt down was in 1941 during WW2 and the fierce battles that went on in Riga between the USSR and Nazi forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter's_Church,_Riga

What is not written there and also there are very few photos is that during the Soviet times, the church tower was restored. So it is not an original tower but a copy of it. In the Soviet times they made the tower from metal instead of wood, and simply clad it with wood to give the old impression.
The tower last time was finished in 1970 and the architect who made it sat on top of the rooster on the tower and drank a glass of champagne, then dropped the glass from it, as per an old tradition.
The tower was built to it's original height and stands some 123 meters above ground.
Here are some photos and videos.
Here is the steel framework in place of the original wooden one, picture is from the 1960's

Here is a general 4 min video , you can see almost all the church towers and roosters.
All in all the Old Riga city is a part of Riga still preserved from the medieval times, many buildings standing from the Livonian ages. The whole Old Riga city that you can see in this video is included in UNESCO as a world heritage site.
Soviet modernism in the 1960's and WW2 before that came dangerously close to destroying the old city and wiping it away from the map of the world but thanks to luck, higher powers and the fanatical work of many conservationists much of the old was saved and some buildings that were damaged or destroyed have now been rebuilt to their original copies.

 

[Astronuc]

There is no general significance, it is just a piece of art that originated from some medieval beliefs.

At 3:43 in the video on seven Livonian language lessons, there is a book with a rooster on the cover. The book has a title on it, Jelzi Sõnā, so I wondered if that is significant with respect to rooster and the use of roosters on churches. I was thinking perhaps some old historical and cultural symbol, as in perhaps chasing the darkness away, or perhaps a rooster refers to enlightenment (light) as opposed to ignorance (darkness).

 

[artis]

At 3:43 in the video on seven Livonian language lessons, there is a book with a rooster on the cover. The book has a title on it, Jelzi Sõnā, so I wondered if that is significant with respect to rooster and the use of roosters on churches. I was thinking perhaps some old historical and cultural symbol, as in perhaps chasing the darkness away, or perhaps a rooster refers to enlightenment (light) as opposed to ignorance (darkness).

These symbols typically have more than one meaning. One other rather practical meaning was that the roosters were also wind direction meters. They were made such that they could turn to align with the wind direction.

By the way, the Rigas doms church tower had it's original rooster survive roughly 400 years and was finally taken down only in 1985. Then the local professionals made a new one in place of the old.

One additional practical feature was that the original rooster taken down back in 85, had one of it's sides colored black. Thereby depending on the wind direction the black side was either facing the river or the city center, that was a signal about whether the wind direction is favorable for ships to enter Riga port or not thereby signalling whether it will be a good or bad day for the merchants.
Riga as far back as Livonian times was a port city and waterways and ports were the main hubs of goods and food in the centuries up until 20th.

Here is a picture from 1985. The two metalworkers with their newly made copper rooster that was soon gold plated/galvanized.
See the old rooster behind the new one, notice the black side of it.

 

[Forbes]

I have read that Lithuanians can understand Sanskrit.

A myth.

Lithuanian has preserved conservative features only found in ancient Indo-European languages like Sanskrit, but Lithuanians cannot understand Sanskrit or any other ancient Indo-European language unless they have studied them.

 

[snorkack]

There is no general significance, it is just a piece of art that originated from some medieval beliefs. Apparently there was a belief that the morning song of a rooster scares the devils away. Not sure why a christian church would base their symbols on something that is not even in the bible , but well then again the church has done many things that are not in the very book it originally based it's faith on

Cock actually is in the bible. Jesus prophesied that Peter would deny him thrice before cock crowed. Which Peter said he would not do. And then did do. When the cock crowed, this reminded Peter of the prophesy having come true.