Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

News The Bush Administration is playing the NAZI card

  1. Aug 31, 2006 #1


    User Avatar
    Gold Member


    Hey if talking to Hitler might have worked perhaps we should try it.
    The way things have been going in Iraq it is about as futile as trying to fight a fire with an ice pick.
    If we want the Iraqi troops to take over and be effective, they are going to have to be trained to use the same type of hit and run tactics as the insurgents.

    American military tactics have not worked, so why should we expect those same tactics to work for the Iraqi military?
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 1, 2006 #2


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    edward, at the same time you started this thread, I posted the following in the thread about 2006 elections because as your OP states, it is election-time rhetoric.

    So here it comes, some more national security fear-mongering!

    Rummy continues with the claim that the war on terrorism is a war against fascism -

    "Rumsfeld: War critics have ‘moral ... confusion’
    Defense secretary tells veterans that U.S. faces a ‘new type of fascism’" --

    Rummy alludes to history, and how we need to learn lessons from it. Bush continues with that theme now likening terrorists to Nazis -


    Yes, let's learn from history, starting with the absurd use of these terms. There is some aspects of fascism in Islamic fundamentalism, but not enough for the term to properly apply. Nazis and communists are even further off the mark.

    First, in regard to intellectual confusion, these idiots need to look in the mirror! And let's stop with the usual cherry picking (if we can even find the tree!). Nazis/Hitler were able to rise in power because people did not QUESTION AUTHORITY until it was too late!!!

    And one might note that Bush is making the connection of Nazism to the war in Iraq. It has already been established that Iraq is a separate issue from terrorism/Al Qaeda. Of course since most Americans don't know history, including current events, many will fall for this Bush!t.

    Second is the claim of "moral confusion." Once again, these idiots (and certain conservatives, particularly the religious-right) need to look in the mirror!


    FREE MY PEOPLE, if not from tyranny, then from sheer stupidity. Replace the likes of Frist, Santorum, etc., with the Rule of Reason once more. Than impeach Bush/Cheney -- we cannot afford two more years of this!
  4. Sep 1, 2006 #3


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    This time it won't work - they've got Godwin against them!
  5. Sep 1, 2006 #4


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

  6. Sep 1, 2006 #5


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Great job following a post on Goodwin's law with a post violating it, tubo-1 :rolleyes:

    Yes, it is an election year, and the rhetoric is flowing from all sides. But then also, this is what I've been saying about Democrats overplaying their hand. You cannot win an election by comparing your own country to Nazi Germany. Frankly, though I'm not a big fan of the Democratic party (obviously), the PACs that purport to support them may as well be Republican plants, so badly do their actions backfire on them.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2006
  7. Sep 1, 2006 #6


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Rove must have decided that if the Administration repeats Nazi, Nazi, Nazi enough times people will believe it regradless of Godwin's law.

    Repetition worked with the "WMD" that didn't even exist. The smoke and mirrors act has started once again.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2006
  8. Sep 1, 2006 #7
    Tubo-1 didn't mention Nazis, Bush and Rumsfeld did.
  9. Sep 2, 2006 #8
    You mean confirming it, it's a probability approaching one that Hitler or the Nazis will be mentioned as a thread continues. Anyway I think that the OP is about Hitler kind of excuses comparissons, maybe?

    If you ask me the Bush administration is not only not dealing with a full deck but is fast running out of cards.
  10. Sep 2, 2006 #9


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Uh, did you read the link he posted? It is about the Bush admin being Nazis/fascists. They even have a picture on the website that is copied from an old Nazi poster, but with an elephant put in place of the swastika on the flag!
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  11. Sep 2, 2006 #10
    Of course I saw that, and I passed it off for the silly propganda that it is. Did you see that the page predominately focuses on the characteristics of fascism, and that fascism is all turbo-1 spoke of when linking to the page? Did you see were, unlike turbo-1, Bush and Rumsfeld both quite clearly and directly did mention Nazis?

    Good point. Godwin simply presented us with an extrapolation of a commonly understood axiom; an infinite number of monkeys typing for an infinite amount of time will eventually recreate the compete work's of William Shakespeare. In that same regard, as a discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving William Shakespeare approaches one; and that goes for popcicles too, and badgers, and anything else you can think of, including Nazis. So while Godwin's Law is perpetuated as if it is some trump-card akin pointing out a logical fallacy, corning an occurrence does nothing to contest the validity of such comparisons.
  12. Sep 2, 2006 #11
    As defined by rfc 2795 :)

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2017
  13. Sep 2, 2006 #12
    Hitler/Nazi comparisons are hopelessly driven by partisanship and the desire to cast one's opponents as inhuman.

    This goes for comparisons made by both the Right and the Left.

    There are aspects of the Nazi agenda that could be used to vilify both ends of the political spectrum. Most people are probably well acquainted with the Bush=Hitler rhetoric, so I will list some of the tenets that could be used with equal effect against the Left:

    -Promotes a centrally governed state
    -Believes that the government has been corrupted and sabotaged by a capitalist elite
    -Believes in environmental protection
    -Believes in the limiting of profits, the abolishing of rents and the increasing of social benefits
    -Believes in uniting all workers to work for the common good
    -Goal is to bring forth a nation-state as the locus and embodiment of the people's collective will
    -Has a perception that a select group of rich men are controlling the country's finances
    -Has a perception that a select group of rich men profits from warfare

    from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

    In fact, Hitler's disdain for the Jewish bankers of his day is very similar to the hatred many people have for Halliburton (Hitler said that Jewish bankers constituted a corporate elite that had corrupted and sabotaged the government and was guilty of war profiteering during WWI).

    Nevertheless, I must bring us back to the fact that an honest person can not truly believe that a Halliburton-hating, profit-limiting, socialist worker's party-supporting person is a Nazi.

    It is as much a fallacy as saying, "All Fords are automobiles. Therefore, that automobile must be a Ford." A Nazi has a certain set of values, but if one shares some or many of those values he/she is not necessarily a Nazi. Hitler may have even liked ice cream.

    Perhaps most revealing is that this website describes Hitler as an economic centrist.

    To be honest, the label "election-year rhetoric" is as politically motivated as the rhetoric it is labeling.
  14. Sep 2, 2006 #13


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Hitler's disdain for Jewish financiers was a transparent farce. He needed a scapegoat for popular consumption, and they were it. His rise to power was marked by rampant nationalism, jingoism, pomp and military regalia, including the use of uniformed troops to prop up his image when he made public appearances. His appearances were well-scripted and only the party faithful attended. Does this sound anything like W's battle-plan? You cannot even get into one of his choreographed "public appearances" unless you are a Republican. Pardon me, but I was under the mistaken impression that in a representative republic (NOT a democracy, which the US certainly is not!) that the President represented us all. Not this one.
  15. Sep 3, 2006 #14
    easy there turbo... don't you know it's unpatriotic to criticize the bush administration? you are not to question our fearless leader in his brave attempt to bring our brand of democracy to the heathen savages of the middle east. don't you know that by criticizing bush, you are giving comfort to our enemy? You must be an atheist who is pro baby murder....

    hahaha, you have to love the right wing propaganda. Sorry I couldn't resist.

    Granted, this administration is a tool shed... but are you comparing bush to hitler?

    Certainly the administration has been secretive, unwilling to compromise on its hard line stance... willing to misinterpret evidence to support a war.. and completely incapable of hearing criticism... but i'd hardly put that on par with hitler's transgressions.
  16. Sep 3, 2006 #15


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    No, I'm not comparing him to Hitler. His administration has moved strongly toward an authoritarian position on many, many fronts, spouts nationalistic jingoisms, and marginalizes the rights of individuals while elevating the interests of large corporations over the common good. Those are hallmarks of fascism, and the fact that the US voters have not raised a ruckus about the marginalization of the roles of Congress and the Judiciary speaks volumes about their ignorance and/or apathy. I'm an Independent, but I'm going to vote a straight Democratic ticket in the next couple of elections and hope others will, as well, so Congress will not be a rubber-stamp for these people. When the president can sign many hundreds of "signing statements" exempting himself from obeying our laws, he is assuming the role of emperor or king. Our forefathers fought very hard to rid themselves of such tyranny and to secure the right to form a a representative government.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  17. Sep 3, 2006 #16
    Kieth Olbermann has a great rebuttal to Rumsfeld.

    http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/politics/2006/09/01/olbermann/index.html?source=newsletter [Broken]

    The problem making such comparisons is that there are always overlapping similarities between one ideology and another. The term Islamofascist is the one I find to be the worst. Any brutal repressive regime, organization, or group has many things in common with any other brutal repressive regime, organization, or group.

    Fascism is corporatism, government by the corporations, of the corporations, and for the corporations. All you need to do is look at the bankruptcy bill passed last year. The credit card companies, aka big banks, wrote it, shopped it, and got it passed without amendments or changes.

    Now that IMO is fascism.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  18. Sep 3, 2006 #17


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Well spoken, Keith!
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  19. Sep 3, 2006 #18
    Some interesting details on how the comparison was circulated over the past year:

  20. Sep 3, 2006 #19
    I am sorry to say so, but that Olbermann clip is cherry-picking disguised as stern-faced, eloquent, almost poetic, criticism. These excerpts are of great interest:
    As I have said before, there exists a myriad of tenets which define fascism and Nazism.

    Never mind that the Nazis promoted the limiting of profits, the abolishing of rents and the increasing of social benefits.

    Never mind that the fascist states of WW2-era Europe catered as much to the working class as they did to capitalists.

    Olbermann simply does not provide enough "coordinates" to pinpoint the Bush administration as fascist or Nazi. This has some humorous consequences if one examines these "analyses" closely.

    For example, turbo-1 wrote:
    It sounds like Kim Jong-il's battle plan.

    This Olbermann-esque analysis is hopelessly oversimplified. Olbermann and many others desperately need to read this website.

    A two-dimensional political grid is a more logical manner of charting political differences.

    Compare Hitler's coordinates to George Bush's coordinates.

    In my view, Olbermann cherry-picked to try to lump George Bush with the authoritarian crowd (most notably with Hitler). However, defining only one coordinate on a two-dimensional grid is incredibly deceptive. "Authoritarian" describes Hitler and Stalin equally well!

    While Keith Olbermann certainly knows that the Earth is round, he uses only latitude or longitude when navigating its politics.

    Until anyone can provide enough political coordinates to make a valid comparison with Hitler or the fascists, these oversimplified, self-righteous analyses should not be taken seriously. That goes for comparisons coming from all political viewpoints.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2006
  21. Sep 4, 2006 #20


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Did you watch the wrong video clip?

    Olbermann never made any connection between Bush and Hitler or Nazism - none was intended by him! Naturally, it would make no sense for him (Olbermann) to provide "coordinates" in support of an argument he was NOT making.
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook