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The crop circle

  1. Jun 18, 2009 #1
    Dear all,

    Crop circle is an old story. I myself think it's just the hoax of mankind, but it seems there are pictures still in mystery. Have they proved that those pics are just products of people?

    Thanks

    (I hope this quest is suitable in this box)
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 18, 2009 #2

    russ_watters

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    People claiming to be the original hoaxters came forward and were able to demonstrate how it is done. Some diehards still believe.
     
  4. Jun 18, 2009 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    The people who came forward also stated that they got the idea from the real phenomenon. At that point we began to see the complex designs, which had never appeared before. It was common knowledge that farmers sometimes found inexplicable simple circles in their fields.

    Back around the late 1940s, meteorologists studied the phenomenon and concluded that the cause was likely wind votices forming along hilltops. This because the circles were often found near the base of a hill.
     
  5. Jun 18, 2009 #4
    Try it. It's a wonderful way to spend a restless summer night.
     
  6. Jun 19, 2009 #5
  7. Jun 19, 2009 #6
    Most of the noise about crop circles went away when the researchers in the field were embarrassed by studying a long winded prank. They did most of the "can't be done by people - we tried to duplicate it" yelling.

    I get grass circles all of the time. The deer do it.
     
  8. Jun 19, 2009 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Funny, we have lots of grass and deer and I've never seen a circle.

    Been here 20 years.
     
  9. Jun 19, 2009 #8

    turbo

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    I don't get "grass circles" either, but I get plenty of "grass kidneys". In fact, a couple of summers ago, a doe and her twins used to visit about every night and bed down on the front lawn, leaving kidney-shaped depressions.
     
  10. Jun 19, 2009 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    Yes, I often see where the deer have been bedding down at night, but I have never seen a circle. What's more, the kidney-shaped impressions makes it immediately apparently that this is where deer or some other large animals were lying.

    Apparently the "genuine" circles are basically donut-shaped.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  11. Jun 19, 2009 #10
    The 'pinto beans' or 'kidneys' are more common. The circles are well 'circles."

    Got any photos of:

    Back around the late 1940s, meteorologists studied the phenomenon and concluded that the cause was likely wind votices forming along hilltops. This because the circles were often found near the base of a hill.

    Or are these 'circles' as well?
     
  12. Jun 19, 2009 #11
    They already proved that.But there is some many idiot diehard believers who believes what they want more than what is logical.There actually lots of people demonstrated how to make them.And I know a a maker team who do them for fun,(also they do commercial circles for money).I watched about that team at National Geographic.Leader of the team told about their memories.He said that;
    last year they was working on a crop circle .When they was working on the west end of the circle they heard some voices coming from east end of circle.They was afraid at first because what they do is a crime.Field owners hate them because they ruin their plants.But because of weird noises they wanted to check out.At the east end of circle there was a group of diehard believers doing some kinda ritual/praying to the great universal knowledge/aliens who build that great circle.When the diehard believers realized just a few human did it they got so angry and started to attack the chop circle team."Diehard believers actually blamed them to cause UFO to lost their ways with their wrong signs.

    I personally hate those kinds of diehards.I'm pretty sure somewhere in the space there is an alien race.But also I'm pretty sure if they come here from a far galaxy they won't need some stupid crop circles to find their way.They traveled in space, I bet they already invented the gps or something.And if they want to try to communicate with those circles why those aliens make one in front of the white house?

    And there is also very good explanation for grass circles.But I never heard about a explanations about the grass kidneys.But I'm pretty sure there is simple explanation
     
  13. Jun 20, 2009 #12

    Ivan Seeking

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    There is a physicist named Levengood who claims that not all crop circles can be explained in mundane terms.

    For example.
    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119267484/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  14. Jun 20, 2009 #13
    I heard about that claims about alterations before.But I never seen any solid proof they existed.I also know lots of so-called altered chop samples which looks exordinary.But when chop expert examinated it they found it mundane.
    Thats is a common reason of all so-called supernatural phenomens, human race haven't understanded the nature enought to decide what is natural and what is paranormal.There is lots of exordinary things in nature.For experts they are miracles of nature, for believers they are paranormal...
     
  15. Jun 20, 2009 #14
    Here is a link that works:
    http://www.bltresearch.com/published/anatomical.html" [Broken]

    I did a little extra research here because Levengood misspells the name of the journal (Hard to believe isn't it). I wanted to be sure he was actually published there and not in a fake look-alike journal.

    Here is a response to Levengood.
    http://www.cropfiles.it/docs/Questionable_Science.html" [Broken]

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  16. Jun 20, 2009 #15

    russ_watters

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    I wonder if he's ever written a paper about a hoax, thinking it was real. I wonder if he'd pass a blind "taste test". Given the embarrassment that the movement faced a decade ago when the hoaxsters came out of the woodwork, I'd say guys like him have a pretty heavy burden of proof ahead of them if they are to continue with that sort of research.
    [edit]
    In hoakie's link, he examines a large number of circles in 1990-91 and makes only one reference to the possibility that they are hoaxes:
    He seems to be arguing that none of them are hoaxes, which is a wildly unreasonable thing to believe based on the "coming out" of the hoaxsters in the same season. IMO, that makes him a pure crackpot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  17. Jun 20, 2009 #16

    russ_watters

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    That is essentially the argument made by Carl Sagan in "The Demon Haunted World". Some people see unusual things and their brains create a belief that what they are seeing is supernatural. The birth and establishment of the scientific method mostly did away with that, but not completely.
     
  18. Jun 20, 2009 #17

    russ_watters

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    That's not quite what it says in the wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle

    So the motivation of the claimed original crop circle hoaxters was not to imitate a known natural phenomena like you suggest, but was a flying saucer hoax from the start.
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if a dust-devil type cyclone could knock down crops. That's a pretty mundane explanation and quite reasonable. Such a thing would be unlikely to cause a perfect circle, though. And certainly anything more intricate than a circle could not reasonably be assumed to be natural. Here's an example of it:
    http://www.stonehenge-avebury.net/scienceofcropcircles.htm

    At the same time, it can't be assumed that there was no hoaxing being done prior to the 1970s when the phenomena exploded.

    So perhaps we could easily separate them into two categories:
    1. Small circles, imperfect: some may be natural, likely caused by "dust devils". But the possibility of hoaxing smaller ones and pre-1970s ones can't be dismissed.
    2. Near perfect circles, circles larger than a few meters, and anything more intricate than a single small circle: Almost certainly all hoaxes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  19. Jun 20, 2009 #18

    russ_watters

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    The dust devil wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_devil
     
  20. Jun 20, 2009 #19
    Thank you for the book name.I read some parts of it online and I really loved it.I'm going to buy it soon.
     
  21. Jun 20, 2009 #20
    There were only 3 peer reviewed papers on the subject and all 3 are old and subsequently discredited.
    Well stated Russ.
     
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