End to Math & Music? 2^N vs 2^n Combinations

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In summary, the conversation discusses the potential decline of mathematical interrelatedness and whether there is an end to new music. It is argued that mathematics cannot end, as there will always be true statements that require new axioms to be proven. The conversation also touches on the idea that progress in mathematics may never end due to the constant need to add new axioms to prove certain statements.
  • #1
zankaon
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Assuming no new catagories, might further mathematical interrelatedness eventually decline? Perhaps another universal language might help - music. Is there an end to new music? For n components, one would have 2^n combinations. And for mathematics, for N components, one would have 2^N combinations. Since N>>>n, then 2^N>>2^n; thus one would have to assume the end to new music, before consideration of the end to new mathematics.
 
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  • #2
Mathematics can not end, even in principle. There will always be true statements, the proof of which requiring new axioms (Godel).

Why do you assume n (music) <<< N (math) ? Are you strongly restricting what you call music ?
 
  • #3
im not seeing how math can end.
 
  • #4
thomasxc said:
im not seeing how math can end.
Well, think about a system which would be rudimentary enough that you can list and prove everything that is true about it. Such systems exist. But as soon as you have structures able to contain natural numbers, this becomes impossible : there are true statements that can not be proven within your system. You need to enlarge your system with new axioms to prove those true statements.
 
  • #5
oh. okay. so, theoretically, mathematical progress could end if we found a set of basic...laws that could explain everything?i'll say its possible but not probable in the least.
 
  • #6
thomasxc said:
mathematical progress could end if we found a set of basic...laws that could explain everything?
That's surely not what I meant to say.

Mathematics already have built in your set of laws : math are build out of axioms. Within those axioms, some things are true and some things are provable. There are true statements that are unprovable, in any given system which can contain natural numbers. My claim is, from this point which is Godel's theorem, that you will be able to prove those statements in a more elaborate system, by adding one or more axioms. This procedure never ends, so mathematics can not end.
 
  • #7
ah. i see. iguess i was accidentally referring to progress in general. but i see what youre saying.
 

1. What is the difference between 2^N and 2^n combinations in math and music?

In math and music, 2^N refers to the total number of possible combinations when N different elements are combined. On the other hand, 2^n combinations refer to the number of unique combinations when n elements are chosen at a time. In simpler terms, 2^N is the total number of combinations, while 2^n is the number of combinations at a specific selection size.

2. How do 2^N and 2^n combinations relate to each other in math and music?

2^n combinations are a subset of 2^N combinations. This means that 2^n combinations are a smaller group of combinations that make up the larger group of 2^N combinations. To get the total number of 2^n combinations from 2^N combinations, you can use the formula nCr (n choose r), where n is the total number of elements and r is the number of elements chosen at a time.

3. How is the concept of 2^N and 2^n combinations applied in math and music?

In math, 2^N and 2^n combinations are often used in probability and combinatorics to calculate the total number of possible outcomes in a given scenario. In music, 2^N combinations can represent the total number of different chord progressions or melodies that can be created using a set of chords or notes. 2^n combinations can represent the number of unique chord progressions or melodies that can be played in a specific song or section of a song.

4. Can 2^N and 2^n combinations be applied in other fields besides math and music?

Yes, the concept of 2^N and 2^n combinations can be applied in various fields such as computer science, genetics, and linguistics. In computer science, these combinations can be used in coding and data structures. In genetics, they can be used in analyzing DNA sequences. In linguistics, they can be used in understanding the structure and complexity of languages.

5. Are there any real-life examples that demonstrate the concept of 2^N and 2^n combinations?

Yes, there are many real-life examples that illustrate the concept of 2^N and 2^n combinations. For instance, in a deck of cards, the total number of possible combinations is 52^N, while the number of unique combinations when choosing 5 cards at a time is 52^5. In genetics, the total number of possible genetic combinations from the parents is 2^N, while the number of unique combinations in their offspring is 2^n.

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