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The French are very selective

  1. Jul 11, 2008 #1
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 11, 2008 #2
    Welcome to Nicolas' world. I am not surprised at all. Please do not think all french people would agree with this specific decision.

    Interestingly enough, we do have quite an ambitious project more generally, which Nicolas has already began to work on as he begins leading the Europe presidence. "Union for the Mediterranean" raises many questions and resistances in Europe. He already has been approved for his "selected immigration" proposal, some would see it as an important step in a bigger picture.
  4. Jul 11, 2008 #3
    I applaud their discretion on immigration actually. The French have a sense of who they are as a culture. America? Not so much. We are an ever changing soup.
  5. Jul 11, 2008 #4
    America was founded as soup. That is our culture.
  6. Jul 11, 2008 #5
    Even the Indians came here from somewhere else.
  7. Jul 11, 2008 #6
    That's true of every place except where humans first evolved.

    But the point is that while the French people have been around to "cultivate" their culture for over a thousand years, America hasn't. Moreover, all sorts of people had come and continue to come to America. From all over Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. That was the whole point of America.
  8. Jul 11, 2008 #7


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    Apparently what it says is that the French value the "equality of the sexes" above the freedom of religious practice. In the US that would be seen as an interference of the State in Religion.

    The thing that is odd about it I think is that the woman has no apparent complaint about wearing the veil, merely about not getting citizenship. This rejection then is apparently born out of the intolerance of others, not so much any regard for the statements of the Rights of Man and religious freedom that are the basis of the current French constitution.

    Putting it in context though I see that in a brief survey of Europe, France is not alone in its practices. Here is a page from the BBC that touches on European attitudes with respect to the veil:

  9. Jul 11, 2008 #8
    There is a long history of the "veil issue" in France/Europe. Indeed we have a very different position on religion, which must never interfere with the Republic considered as a priority over the individual (as opposed to the american conception, at least my understanding of it !). It is very unfortunate that people have concentrated on the specific "veil" aspect, hiding many more important issues with the way women are treated in the middle east. But as a result, this is what you get.
  10. Jul 11, 2008 #9


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    The interpretation of the general intent in the US (my opinion anyway) is that the Constitution is designed to protect the many from the tyranny of the few - the democratic aspect which protects against despots and unpopular repression - and as well protect the few against the tyranny of the many such as setting limits to the Federalism the government may engage in and foster the inherent differences between all people with fundamental individual rights that supercedes potential abuses of the democratic pressure toward uniformity.
  11. Jul 11, 2008 #10
    Its interesting in conjunction with this story...

    The prosecution says it is about the 'lie' of virginity, which could certianly be upheld as a violation of the particular marriage contract, but apparently the ruling of the original case decided that 'virginity' was an 'essential requirement' of this particular sort of union which would set a legal precedent that this is a prerequisite of a muslim marriage.
  12. Jul 11, 2008 #11


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    Where are the French going with this Mediterranean union business? I've only heard of it in very general terms so far in as much as it made the news because Libya boycotted the inaugural meeting.
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