# The Fundamental Postulate Of Special Relativity Is Self-Contradictory

Integral said:
The error is not due to Maxwell, but rather your model of the atom. As usual when you make non physical assumptions you get non physical results. That is the main lesson of all your arguments.
The model is basically correct. Statically charged objects either attract or repel. We have macroscopic proof of this. Then a theory was developed, which explained such macroscopic behavior, and more.

Something about the model is right, since Bohr was able to derive the Balmer formula from his assumptions. He added a quantum physical assumption, in order to counteract the Maxwellian Catastrophe (namely unstable orbit).

We have an electron that would move in a straight line at a constant speed, or remain at rest. This is true because the electron is in an IRF, and the law of inertia is true in any IRF.

However, the electron isn't doing that, therefore it is experiencing a force.

The Coulomb law is the experimental magnitude of that force, the constant comes from experiment.

This being said, if we now further apply Maxwell's results, this electron should radiate EM waves and spiral into the nucleus. That doesn't happen.
Regards,

StarThrower

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Integral
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
In the same vein of your arguments.

Non physical assumptions yield non physcial results.

StarThrower said:
Maxwell's equations say that the electron should radiate EM waves, and thus spiral into the nucleus within a fraction of a second. Therefore, according to EM, hydrogen atoms don't exist. And hydrogen atoms are the most numerous atom in the universe. Therefore, EM contains an error.
StarThrower
I hope you enjoy being wrong; you're so good at it!

Classical electromagnetic theory can be applied with tremendous accuracy within the atom. The fields predicted by Maxwell's equations work just fine. The inability of classical physics (Newton + Maxwell) to explain how electrons behave in atoms is the result of errors in the Newton part, not the Maxwell part.

jdavel said:
I hope you enjoy being wrong; you're so good at it!

Classical electromagnetic theory can be applied with tremendous accuracy within the atom. The fields predicted by Maxwell's equations work just fine. The inability of classical physics (Newton + Maxwell) to explain how electrons behave in atoms is the result of errors in the Newton part, not the Maxwell part.

Precisely what part of Newton is wrong?

Aristotle noticed that most things just kind of sit where they are. Most of us notice this fact. Things just sort of stay where they are. Hence, an object at rest will remain at rest. This is violated when some kind of force comes into play, such as us lifting the stone against the gravitational pull of the earth.

As for the part which says, and an object in motion will continue to move in a straight line at a constant speed forever, unless acted upon by an outside force, well this part is not really too obvious. But consider the experiments of Galileo. This part of Newtonian mechanics comes right out of Galileo's experiments.

Galileo's Dialogue Concerning Two New Sciences

russ_watters
Mentor
StarThrower said:
Aristotle noticed that most things just kind of sit where they are. Most of us notice this fact. Things just sort of stay where they are. Hence, an object at rest will remain at rest. This is violated when some kind of force comes into play, such as us lifting the stone against the gravitational pull of the earth.
Aristotle also believed that an object would stop moving if the force on it was removed. Physics has come a long way since then. You seem to have come as far as Newton and stopped there. Physics has come a long way since Newton as well: in fact, Newton was essentially the beginning of physics (mathematically), not the end.
Precisely what part of Newton is wrong?
Quite a bit (if not wrong, at least limited in domain), starting with f=ma, but you don't seem to buy any of that. Tough to continue if you don't accept much of anything of modern physics.

russ_watters said:
Tough to continue if you don't accept much of anything of modern physics.
He is a genius in his own mind. He neglects that Newtonian physics yield approximate results for any situation where Einsteinian physics will yield a more accurate reflection of experimental data.

Better yet he ignores any post that spells this sort of thing out...like a horse with blinders.

Ignorance is bliss?

russ_watters said:
Aristotle also believed that an object would stop moving if the force on it was removed. Physics has come a long way since then. You seem to have come as far as Newton and stopped there. Physics has come a long way since Newton as well: in fact, Newton was essentially the beginning of physics (mathematically), not the end. Quite a bit (if not wrong, at least limited in domain), starting with f=ma, but you don't seem to buy any of that. Tough to continue if you don't accept much of anything of modern physics.
Russ, experiments on billiard balls suffice to verify Newton's laws. In fact, Newton formulated his statements from concentrating on bodies in relative motion.

Kind regards,

StarThrower

P.S. Unless you have actually read Aristotle, you shouldn't quote him second hand. Lots of words have been put into the mouth of Aristotle over the years. Not to mention, all we have of his works are translations, not one of us speaks ancient Greek fluently.

As for my quote of Aristotle's, I took it right out of "Physics" which was translated by translated by R. P. Hardie and R. K. Gaye. It's available on the web, at MIT.

I found the quote I was referring to. Here is the translation:

Further, in point of fact things that are thrown move though that which gave them their impulse is not touching them, either by reason of mutual replacement, as some maintain, or because the air that has been pushed pushes them with a movement quicker than the natural locomotion of the projectile wherewith it moves to its proper place. But in a void none of these things can take place, nor can anything be moved save as that which is carried is moved.

Further, no one could say why a thing once set in motion should stop anywhere; for why should it stop here rather than here? So that a thing will either be at rest or must be moved ad infinitum, unless something more powerful get in its way. Aristotle, Physics, Book 4

The bolded part is a formulation of the law of inertia, which predates Galileo by some 1800 years or so. As you can see, Aristotle was referring to motion in the vacuum.

Additionally, it appears that Aristotle did not believe what you said he did Russ. It looks to me like Aristotle was talking about what others believed, rather than himself, right up until he stated his own position, which is Aristotle's Law Of Inertia.

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