Back in the old PFs, I made this thread to get rid of an idea that was continually side-tracking threads. I thought it was, for the most part, effective, but it appears that this is not the case. So, I have found the thread on the PF Archive C.D., and reposted it here: The following are the Hurdles to the Causal Mathematics idea (which is the idea that Mathematics creates the phenomena of the Universe), as posted in PF 2.0: 1) Non-physical Hurdle: Mathematics has no physical presence (nor does logic, for that matter). You can say that electromagnetism (for example) is causal, because it can exert *physical* force on objects. Mathematics, on the other hand, exists only in the metaphysical (or the realm of concepts). 2) The Dictionary Hurdle: The American Heritage dictionary of the English Language defines mathematics as: The Webster's Dictionary defines it as: In both of these, it uses the term "study". The word study (according to the aforementioned dictionaries, and a thesaurus) is synonymous to research, observation, or the pursuit of knowledge. 3) The Unconscious Hurdle: It appears that Alexander would have one believe that the Universe "conforms" to the laws of logic and mathematics. This would imply that the Universe "knows" what those laws are. Unless Alexander wishes to make a case for a "conscious Universe", this is another problem for his hypothesis. (Note: I have added Hurdle #3. It did not appear in the original thread). In closing, any hypothesis with such giant objections would quickly be discarded by any scientist. But, of course, these are not objections at all, if anyone can prove them invalid.