Regulating a Deep-Brain Stimulation Device: Who Bears the Cost?

[avant-garde]

If one day we were to engineer a deep-brain stimulation device that would bring you happiness whenever you wanted it, how would the government try to regulate it, if at all?

Do you think it will be priced at a pay-per-use rate (each time you activate it, it will cost you lots of $) or buy-once-becomes-yours?

buy-once-become-yours will probably be extremely expensive at first, but will become cheaper as new technologies further develop.
but pay-per-use will probably stay expensive, since companies will form trusts to keep their businesses lucrative in the long run

Would this be a world where $$$ has the absolute power to buy happiness?

 

[rootX]

I don't think it would be ever possible to buy happiness with money.

First, how one will define happiness?
If one is drunk and/or unconscious of all his responsibilities - no worries at all - is he happy?
If yes, then there are many drugs now that can make people happy.

 

[jambaugh]

It would have to be called Soma. Read Huxley's "Brave New World".

Or one could go with direct electrical stimulation of the brain. See Niven's known universe series, especially "Ringworld Engineers".

 

[Evo]

Anything that instills a false sense of euphoria would be bad for society. If you are happy, no matter what your circumstances are, what would be the need to achieve anything, or make your life, or of those you love better. Why try to be healthy? Why work? Why care about anything? You're happy, right?

 

[avant-garde]

Anything that instills a false sense of euphoria would be bad for society. If you are happy, no matter what your circumstances are, what would be the need to achieve anything, or make your life, or of those you love better. Why try to be healthy? Why work? Why care about anything? You're happy, right?

Then should we get rid of Buddhism and many eastern religions that emphasize being happy with what you have? It's been proven with MRI scans that Buddhist monks have much lower stress levels than the average person.

It would have to be called Soma. Read Huxley's "Brave New World".

I actually made a post about that quite a while back
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=281441&highlight=brave+new+world

 

[Evo]

Then should we get rid of Buddhism and many eastern religions that emphasize being happy with what you have? It's been proven with MRI scans that Buddhist monks have much lower stress levels than the average person.

Making a choice to give up material things and accept what you have is not the same as artificially induced "happiness". It's not even close.

 

[Astronuc]

Does one pay for air or sunlight?

Happiness is a matter of choice, so why would one need to buy it?

One element of Buddhism is overcoming (or letting go of) craving or insatiable desire, and then realizing happiness.

 

[rootX]

Then should we get rid of Buddhism and many eastern religions that emphasize being happy with what you have? It's been proven with MRI scans that Buddhist monks have much lower stress levels than the average person.

It's not simple as that. I don't think they (Buddhism or related. I'm not sure about Taoism or Confucianism) tell you to overcome your needs and not do any work/achieve anything (needs != desires/lust etc). Neither that they refrain from material world.

 

[dvs]

http://www.gethappy.com/watchmore.html

 

[nottheone]

The drug already exists and has been used for a couple thousand years at least in various forms. It is regulated and suppressed. It's called the destroyer of youth, the killer weed, ganja, herb, bud, dope, mary jane, or just Marijuana. It's biggest drawback is that it causes insanity, ...not in the people who use it but in people who don't.

"I've been straight, I've been stoned, stoned is better." ...?

 

[Evo]

The drug already exists and has been used for a couple thousand years at least in various forms. It is regulated and suppressed. It's called Marijuana. It's biggest drawback is that it causes insanity, not in the people who use it but in people who don't.

Not true, marijuana doesn"t make you happy, it makes you tired, hungry and too tired to care. Munchies and sleep, that's what it causes.

 

[nottheone]

I guess it doesn't affect everyone the same way.

 

[Proton Soup]

too much MJ also seems to make people paranoid.

i could see a brain stim device being used on violent offenders. maybe some kind of kinder, gentler amygdalotomy.

 

[redargon]

If one day we were to engineer a deep-brain stimulation device that would bring you happiness whenever you wanted it, how would the government try to regulate it, if at all?

Do you think it will be priced at a pay-per-use rate (each time you activate it, it will cost you lots of $) or buy-once-becomes-yours?

buy-once-become-yours will probably be extremely expensive at first, but will become cheaper as new technologies further develop.
but pay-per-use will probably stay expensive, since companies will form trusts to keep their businesses lucrative in the long run

Would this be a world where $$$ has the absolute power to buy happiness?

I hope the government doesn't regulate my girlfriend... :tongue:

But aside from that, isn't TV one of those sort of devices. It's not perfect by any means, but people believe it to make them happy or relieve stress and that is regulated in both a pay up front (buying the TV and accessories) and a pay per use (cable/satellite service costs) way. I guess a make-you-happy device would be governed in the same way.

Like Evo said though, it most probably wouldn't benefit mankind. People that couldn't afford it would be even more miserable because the people who could wouldn't be trying to make things better for everybody. Humans live on suffering, it's how we evolve and improve. I could think of a lot more productive things I could do when I got home than spending a couple of hours watching crap on TV, but I do so love those people who make me laugh and show me stuff blowing up and people competing for something.


I dislike quoting movies, but it's kind of like the matrix, where they tried to make it hunky dory for everybody, but nobody accepted that too-good-to-be-true reality and it was rejected for a reality with pain and hate and suffering.

 

[mbisCool]

Marijuana fixes everything (in my opinion

But we can't really use absolutes when speaking of effects on individuals. Everyone seems to behave and respond uniquely to various stimulai.

 

[Chi Meson]

Not true, marijuana doesn"t make you happy, it makes you tired, hungry and too tired to care. Munchies and sleep, that's what it causes.

You forgot "stupid." And there are some of us who get extremely paranoid on that stuff.

Regardless, back to the OP. THe "Happy Pill": the gov't will either declare it illegal, or it will be "controlled," as in taxed and "prescription only." I think what we're talking about is Valium. I had one once, prior to minor surgery. I was quite happy for two days. Not euphoric, just calm and pleased with everything. If that's how a Buddhist feels all the time, I'm sold.

 

[nottheone]

You forgot "stupid." And there are some of us who get extremely paranoid on that stuff. ..

You know someone it made stupid? My experience that's a condition we are all born with that has to be carefully nurtured to be maintained, it requires carefully ignoring facts while holding on to prejudices.

Regardless, back to the OP. THe "Happy Pill": the gov't will either declare it illegal, or it will be "controlled," as in taxed and "prescription only." I think what we're talking about is Valium. I had one once, prior to minor surgery. I was quite happy for two days. Not euphoric, just calm and pleased with everything. If that's how a Buddhist feels all the time, I'm sold.

You forgot brainwashing the public into thinking that it is harmful, will destroy society, is against your religion and makes people go crazy. They will also create programs to condition children to be intolerant of it. They will subsidize studies by psuedo-scientists to come up with results that say it will cause cancer, destroy your immune system and make you go out and rape and pillage. Does any of this sound familiar? Not to mention squander our future by spending money on prohibition and incarceration that could be better spent to help people. Incarceration is a great triple threat weapon, it removes people from contributing to the GDP, it removes tax revenue and costs lots of money too, brilliant.

All you have to do is look at marijuana to know what would happen to any other drug that did what this thread proposes.

 

[Chi Meson]

You know someone it made stupid? My experience that's a condition we are all born with that has to be carefully nurtured to be maintained, it requires carefully ignoring facts while holding on to prejudices.

It made me, and everyone I have ever met, "stupid" while they were under the influence of pot. It's temporary stupidity, which I don't think is bad, really, as long as they are responsible enough to not drive or do other things which require their full, active attention.

And what, exactly, is the condition that has to be carefully nurtured and maintained? "Stupidity"? I'm referring to the definition of "stupid" where you can't make decent decisions because you're too busy giggling at your inability to tie your own shoelaces. This is a fun version of stupid, I must admit, but quite temporary, luckily.

 

[BobG]

If one day we were to engineer a deep-brain stimulation device that would bring you happiness whenever you wanted it, how would the government try to regulate it, if at all?

Do you think it will be priced at a pay-per-use rate (each time you activate it, it will cost you lots of $) or buy-once-becomes-yours?

buy-once-become-yours will probably be extremely expensive at first, but will become cheaper as new technologies further develop.
but pay-per-use will probably stay expensive, since companies will form trusts to keep their businesses lucrative in the long run

Would this be a world where $$$ has the absolute power to buy happiness?

The only right thing to do would be to pass laws making it illegal to charge money for it.

Since you can't charge money for it, some other way to regulate when it was available would have to be found so a person wouldn't just activate it anywhere, anytime, with just anyone.

 

[George Jones]

:tongue:

 

[nottheone]

It made me, and everyone I have ever met, "stupid" while they were under the influence of pot. It's temporary stupidity, which I don't think is bad, really, as long as they are responsible enough to not drive or do other things which require their full, active attention.

And what, exactly, is the condition that has to be carefully nurtured and maintained? "Stupidity"? I'm referring to the definition of "stupid" where you can't make decent decisions because you're too busy giggling at your inability to tie your own shoelaces. This is a fun version of stupid, I must admit, but quite temporary, luckily.

Thought you meant a permanent effect.

 

[Scuzzle]

I really hate to think of such a device. The despair that the world would fall into if such a technology were possible is frightening. I doubt it would be a month before we were in some sort of Ayn Randish dystopia, begging for the mighty to save us because there is no electricity to power our pleasure machines.

No thanks.

 

[Proton Soup]

I really hate to think of such a device. The despair that the world would fall into if such a technology were possible is frightening. I doubt it would be a month before we were in some sort of Ayn Randish dystopia, begging for the mighty to save us because there is no electricity to power our pleasure machines.

No thanks.

nah, most would perish because they stopped eating and breathing, and a small remainder would become http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly)" .

 

[BobG]

I really hate to think of such a device. The despair that the world would fall into if such a technology were possible is frightening. I doubt it would be a month before we were in some sort of Ayn Randish dystopia, begging for the mighty to save us because there is no electricity to power our pleasure machines.

No thanks.

It could be designed with some kind of safeguard. For example, it could nag you to get a job and earn some money so it could procure some fuel. As a side benefit, it could even procure some fuel for you at the same time. In fact, it would be especially convenient if it used the same fuel type.

I think we should design such a device and patent it. I'll even donate a rib.

 

[Proton Soup]

It could be designed with some kind of safeguard. For example, it could nag you to get a job and earn some money so it could procure some fuel. As a side benefit, it could even procure some fuel for you at the same time. In fact, it would be especially convenient if it used the same fuel type.

I think we should design such a device and patent it. I'll even donate a rib.

lol, a lot of people knock over liquor and convenience stores when the nagging for their next hit gets loud enough.

 

[BobG]

lol, a lot of people knock over liquor and convenience stores when the nagging for their next hit gets loud enough.

Then it wasn't designed well enough. If it really brings that much pleasure, a person should be motivated to launch a 1000 ships to obtain it.

But just imagine the trauma and turmoil if a person was required to give it up cold turkey.

 

[Loren Booda]

Marijuana is so good, you won't need anything else. No one, no honest feelings, no real love, no progress, no independence...a pocketful of deception.

That is my experience, after smoking 10 kg of it.

I don't see how anything (e. g., "happiness") alone is going to fulfill a person, given time.

 

[Scuzzle]

Happiness is an effect, for which there are an unlimited amount of causes. Happiness is completely fulfilling, but it may not come from a lone source.