The Lagrange Top: Formulas and Analysis for Non-Zero Angular Momentum Cases

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In summary, the conversation discusses the case where all needed formulas are provided, and how to prove that the time average of the angle ##\phi## is not equal to zero. The conversation also mentions a qualitative proof involving torque and angular momentum, and the fact that the top cannot return to the same location after a small loop. It is noted that the vectors ##\boldsymbol L(t)## and ##\boldsymbol L(t+\tau)## can have the same direction but different value.
  • #1
zwierz
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All the needed formulas are here http://hepweb.ucsd.edu/ph110b/110b_notes/node36.html
I consider the following case
$$p_\psi\ne 0,\quad p_\phi/p_\psi\in (\cos\theta_2,\cos\theta_1)$$ this case corresponds to the middle picture in the bottom of the cited page.

I can not prove that the time average of the angle ##\phi## is not equal to zero: ##\int_0^\tau\phi(t)dt\ne 0##, here ##\tau## is the period of the function ##\theta(t)##.
I know it looks like a standard simple thing but I have been thinking for three days and the result is zero, I also can not find it in books. Please help.
 
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  • #2
Very interesting problem. I think I have a qualitative type proof, but it doesn't use the Lagrange equations. The top has a torque on it from gravity. This torque when integrated over time from ## 0 ## to ## \tau ## will be non-zero. (The ## \vec{r} ## and the ## \vec{F} ## don't do a cycle around the top during the time interval of one loop=they basically remain in the same general vicinity for the single loop.) This non-zero result means that the integral of ## \frac{d \vec{L}}{dt} ## (## \vec{L} ## is the angular momentum, basically from the spinning top) must be non-zero so that ## \Delta \vec{L} ## is non-zero. The top can not return to the same location after doing a small loop, because this would imply ## \Delta \vec{L}=0 ##.
 
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yes but the vector ##\boldsymbol L## is not parallel to the axis ##z_B##

UPD: the vectors ##\boldsymbol L(t)## and ##\boldsymbol L(t+\tau)## can have the same direction but different value
 
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1. What is the Lagrange top?

The Lagrange top is a physical system consisting of a rigid body with a fixed point, such as a spinning top or a gyroscope. It is commonly used in classical mechanics as an example of a non-holonomic system, where the constraints depend on the velocity of the system.

2. What are the formulas used to describe the Lagrange top?

The formulas used to describe the Lagrange top depend on the angular momentum of the system. For non-zero angular momentum cases, the equations of motion can be described using Euler's equations, which relate the angular momentum, angular velocity and the moments of inertia of the system.

3. How is the Lagrange top analyzed for non-zero angular momentum cases?

The Lagrange top can be analyzed using various methods, such as the Lagrangian method, the Hamiltonian method, and the Poisson bracket method. These methods involve using the equations of motion to determine the behavior of the system, such as its precession and nutation.

4. What are some real-world applications of the Lagrange top?

The Lagrange top has various applications in physics, engineering, and even in everyday objects. It is commonly used in gyroscopes, satellites, and spacecraft for navigation and stabilization. It is also used in mechanical toys, such as spinning tops and yo-yos.

5. What are some limitations of the Lagrange top model?

The Lagrange top model assumes a perfectly symmetrical and rigid body, which may not accurately represent real-world objects. It also neglects external forces, such as friction and air resistance, which can affect the motion of the system. Additionally, it is limited to non-holonomic systems and may not be applicable to other physical systems.

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