The leading factor in the U.S. presidential runoff: covert racism

[sketchtrack]

Sure there are always going to be some white voters who will pick a white guy over a black guy, but I bet there are more black voters who will vote for a black guy over a white guy. Maybe it is an issue of trust. Black people generally don't trust white people. I guess you could call them racists who don't even know it. Same goes with some white people.

There just so happens to be a controversial issue over Obamas pastor being anti white, and perhaps anti-semetic. Would a black person trust a white person who went to Church and watched the preacher stand there dis on black people talking about how they are causing crime and selling drugs. It would be different if they were accusing individuals instead of races. I think the issue here is the question of Obama, is he a racists, or did he just kiss up to father Wright to advance his career? What kind of person lives a lie for politics? That brings his sincerity into question.

 

[WarPhalange]

Black people generally don't trust white people. I guess you could call them racists who don't even know it.

Yeah... ironic, isn't it?

I'd say blacks would rather vote black than white because they feel they need to in order to equalize society and that having one black president will open the doors for more, i.e. it's about time we had a black president and not "I don't trust whitey". Look at how many blacks like the Clintons.

I think of it the same way... God, the name escapes me... one of the Civil Rights leaders who didn't want any help from white people, not because he didn't like them, but he thought that this is something blacks have to do for themselves by themselves to show the world they can do it and are equals.

 

[sketchtrack]

Yeah... ironic, isn't it?

I'd say blacks would rather vote black than white because they feel they need to in order to equalize society and that having one black president will open the doors for more, i.e. it's about time we had a black president and not "I don't trust whitey". Look at how many blacks like the Clintons.

I think of it the same way... God, the name escapes me... one of the Civil Rights leaders who didn't want any help from white people, not because he didn't like them, but he thought that this is something blacks have to do for themselves by themselves to show the world they can do it and are equals.

To stick it to the "white man".

 

[WarPhalange]

Do you people honestly not see anything wrong when you say things like "That black man was very well spoken" or "That Muslim wasn't violent at all." or "That Jewish man is very generous."

Seriously?

 

[sketchtrack]

I think more an emphasis is on liberal vs. conservatives than on white vs. black. You could argue that it is all racism, but those people won't vote for any liberals. They were furious at getting McCain as their candidate because he was too liberal.

 

[sketchtrack]

Do you people honestly not see anything wrong when you say things like "That black man was very well spoken" or "That Muslim wasn't violent at all." or "That Jewish man is very generous."

Seriously?

Who are you talking about? I never hear people talk like that, but that still doesn't sound very racist. It seams to me that your version of Racism is any kind of racial classification what so ever. What would you have the world do, drop their heritage?

 

[WarPhalange]

Who are you talking about? I never hear people talk like that,

In this very thread you have people saying "That black man was very smart and nice he sure was yup."

and in another thread you had a guy who kept saying "Barack Hussein Obama" and then saying "It's okay, I have a Muslim friend. He isn't violent at all."

but that still doesn't sound very racist. It seams to me that your version of Racism is any kind of racial classification what so ever. What would you have the world drop their heritage.

It is racist because although you are denying racial stereotypes, you still acknowledge them. When you say "That black man was very well spoken" you are immediately implying all other black men are not well-spoken.

It's so ingrained in our society we can't even distinguish it anymore.

 

[sketchtrack]

In this very thread you have people saying "That black man was very smart and nice he sure was yup."

and in another thread you had a guy who kept saying "Barack Hussein Obama" and then saying "It's okay, I have a Muslim friend. He isn't violent at all."



It is racist because although you are denying racial stereotypes, you still acknowledge them. When you say "That black man was very well spoken" you are immediately implying all other black men are not well-spoken.

It's so ingrained in our society we can't even distinguish it anymore.

That just sounds paranoid. Maybe you live in a southern state where there is more racism than other states. The thing is you are just plain blaming a race when you say "white people this, white people that" you are stereotyping white people at being racist. At the same time you are being racist to whites you are complaining about racism to others .

 

[WarPhalange]

That just sounds paranoid. Maybe you live in a southern state where there is more racism than other states. The thing is you are just plain blaming a race when you say "white people this, white people that" you are stereotyping white people at being racist. At the same time you are being racist to whites you are complaining about racism to others .

Huh?

Did I ever mention white people this or that?

And no, I live in the Pacific north west. I grew up around people of all races. That's why I don't make a big deal of it when I meet a black person who is well spoken -- I know plenty.

 

[sketchtrack]

Huh?

Did I ever mention white people this or that?

And no, I live in the Pacific north west. I grew up around people of all races. That's why I don't make a big deal of it when I meet a black person who is well spoken -- I know plenty.

Why do you keep pointing out reasons why you are some kind of exception of a white person who isn't racist, like because you work and live around so many ethnicities you are a different changed white person. It is clear you have some kind of misplaced guilt complex about your race. Maybe your around so many people who hate white people that you feel it is normal. I have had a few African American friends who were ethiopian, and they said that have white friends, but they said they were cool because they were like whites against white people, like they had denounced their race so they were different that white people who defend white people. It seams that the bulk of racism now days is against white people like it is the cool thing to do.

 

[WarPhalange]

It is clear you have some kind of misplaced guilt complex about your race.

What is my race?

 

[sketchtrack]

Whoa, your right, sorry, I was losing track of who I was talking to.

 

[WarPhalange]

And no, I don't have a guilt complex about my race. I simply realized a long time ago that looking at people as people works a lot better than looking at them as man/woman or by their race.

That's why I find it ridiculous that people even say things like "I'm not racist. I have a black friend and he doesn't like fried chicken at all!"

Why bring up these stereotypes in the first place? When people analyze "the black vote" or "the hispanic vote" on the news, they're not talking about being racist, but what these people feel strongly about based on shared experiences.

A lot of latinos are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants, ergo they might care about immigration laws more, especially if they want to visit family or bring family over.

A black person (half-black, at least) has a shot to get to the White House now, so people who feel they are still not represented equally in government might see this as a chance to equalize things. Well, who has a history of being oppressed in this country?

This is pretty simple stuff, just take a while to think about it instead of saying "well black people don't trust white people". That's just damn insulting. If someone said "White people don't trust black people" around me I'd smack them in the face (oops, I gave my race away!). They don't speak for me. How dare they?

 

[turbo]

You know what race is about to me? Genetic composition, maybe skin color. I must say that, to me, it looks really strage to see you and turbo-1 spontaneously bragging about the race of your associates.

I wasn't bragging about the race of my associates/family. I was pointing out to the OP that there are conservatives who value people for their qualities and that race is not an issue for us. I certainly hope that Buchanan and his ilk do not speak for most conservatives.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm amused at the direction of this thread: even a conservative who doesn't like Pat Buchanan is merely being sensible, but the only possible reason anyone can dislike Barack Obama is racism, covert or otherwise.

 

[Loren Booda]

To me, a great part of racism is the tendency to judge others with a glance, rather than bother spending the time to find out who they really are. It's something like one army has light fatigues, and the other dark, and that's that. If only we citizens were as blind as justice is supposed to be.

 

[WarPhalange]

I'm amused at the direction of this thread: even a conservative who doesn't like Pat Buchanan is merely being sensible, but the only possible reason anyone can dislike Barack Obama is racism, covert or otherwise.

Who said that?

 

[sketchtrack]

I have done a lot of thinking on the subject since last night. Still, my opinion is limited to my experience. My Ethiopian friend is an interesting example to me. He says that he distrusts African Americans because he used to sell weed and said that they will jack you if they know you sell it. He doesn't consider himself african american, he considers himself African, and he trusts Africans but not African Americans. He trusts his white friends more than African Americans, but is against the "white conspiracy". He trusts Ethiopians the most, but has a special hatred for Somalians. The reason for his hatred against Somalians is that the reason he is in the U.S. is because of the Somalian terrorist threat. His father is a some kind of political leader, and he said that Somalians blew up a train that his parents were on almost killing his mother. When I was at his house once, he flipped out on someone who came over with some of his other friends because he was Somalian, and kicked him out of his house. He is a good person though in many respects, he is honest and generally a positive person.

Some white people are racists against blacks for no good reason at all other than hatred. What did black people do to the "white" race to deserve hatred. Not that hating a "race" is the way to go, but I can see why some black people have more of a reason to hate.

My conclusion is that racism is a very complicated issue. I think there is a difference between personal racism and racism for the sake of racism. I understand that some people would be anti white as white nations have historically oppressed many other nations. I still find it insulting though when they put the blame on a skin color rather than learning a little history and blaming the people responsible who are mostly now dead.

 

[isly ilwott]

I certainly don't defend him, but neither do I loathe him.

It's like you can't blame a shark for eating swimmers. It's their nature.

He's trained to elicit responses. He punches buttons and stimulates discussion. He writes books. He does shows. He makes money. And sadly he is likely articulating a vein of sentiment that runs strongly in certain quarters, however unreasonable such sentiment may be.

For a minute there I thought you were speaking of Barack Obama.

In this very thread you have people saying "That black man was very smart and nice he sure was yup."

and in another thread you had a guy who kept saying "Barack Hussein Obama" and then saying "It's okay, I have a Muslim friend. He isn't violent at all."



It is racist because although you are denying racial stereotypes, you still acknowledge them. When you say "That black man was very well spoken" you are immediately implying all other black men are not well-spoken.

It's so ingrained in our society we can't even distinguish it anymore.

You need to get the terms correct when recounting past posts...especially when you use quotation marks. There is nothing uncalled for in stating that one has Muslim friends when one has been accused of not considering a vote for Obama because of his connection to Islam (by his Islamic middle name).

I said nothing similar to "He isn't violent at all." Stop making up things to suit your argument.

And no, I don't have a guilt complex about my race. I simply realized a long time ago that looking at people as people works a lot better than looking at them as man/woman or by their race.

That's why I find it ridiculous that people even say things like "I'm not racist. I have a black friend and he doesn't like fried chicken at all!"

...

Even if you leave off the fried chicken thing, saying that you have a friend of a certain race does not preclude racism. Racism is nothing more than a belief that one race is superior to another.

I would certainly expect though that a person's having many friends of a certain race indicates a lack of racism regarding that race.

...

Some white people are racists against blacks for no good reason at all other than hatred. What did black people do to the "white" race to deserve hatred. Not that hating a "race" is the way to go, but I can see why some black people have more of a reason to hate.

...

There is no good reason for racism.

 

[sketchtrack]

What I meant was that some people are racist without the belief of superiority like more a a feud type thing where as some believe in superiority, or that the other race is not human. There is no excuse for racism, but some forms are different than others.

 

[Loren Booda]

Would it be too outrageous to speculate the transformation of election outcome if the presidential candidates were to exchange skin color?

 

[sketchtrack]

I'm not sure that would matter, remember this is a country that voted Bush in for a second term over John Kerry. Kerry vs. Bush is not unlike McCain vs Obama, Kerry won by far on the issues, he was more intelligent, yet Bush, because people were afraid Kerry was a weak liberal who wouldn't protect us from terrorism, won.

 

[edward]

Talking about race and specifically playing the race card, the terrorist card has been played over and over and over......

 

[Dale]

Kerry vs. Bush is not unlike McCain vs Obama, Kerry won by far on the issues, he was more intelligent, yet Bush, because people were afraid Kerry was a weak liberal who wouldn't protect us from terrorism, won.

Kerry did not win on the issues. Security is an issue and, as you mentioned, it happened to be the most important issue that election cycle. In this current election McCain is the more mainstream candidate, by far. So if people vote strictly on the issues then McCain wins.

The difference between this election and last is that on charisma Obama smashes McCain. Kerry didn't have any of that going for him against Bush. If Obama wins it will be an election of charisma over issues.

 

[Benzoate]

And no, I don't have a guilt complex about my race. I simply realized a long time ago that looking at people as people works a lot better than looking at them as man/woman or by their race.

That's why I find it ridiculous that people even say things like "I'm not racist. I have a black friend and he doesn't like fried chicken at all!"

Why bring up these stereotypes in the first place? When people analyze "the black vote" or "the hispanic vote" on the news, they're not talking about being racist, but what these people feel strongly about based on shared experiences.

A lot of latinos are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants, ergo they might care about immigration laws more, especially if they want to visit family or bring family over.

A black person (half-black, at least) has a shot to get to the White House now, so people who feel they are still not represented equally in government might see this as a chance to equalize things. Well, who has a history of being oppressed in this country?

This is pretty simple stuff, just take a while to think about it instead of saying "well black people don't trust white people". That's just damn insulting. If someone sBaid "White people don't trust black people" around me I'd smack them in the face (oops, I gave my race away!). They don't speak for me. How dare they?

As a black person, I can say I don't think it is a big deal that he might win the presidential election this November. Back in 1963, when a black person had an almost zero chance of winning the presidential nomination, let only the presidential election , I might consider voting for Obama because of his race given the circumstances of race relations during that time period of US history.

In this day and age, if the black person political positions coincides with the political positions of the general public, then I say a black person(or any minority, except atheists and non-religious people) has a great chance of being nominated and elected for president as a white person running for president. Sure they're are a few racists, overt and covert, who will not vote for Obama because of his race nor his background. But those racists make up the minority of the population , since most of obama's constituents are white people.

If Virginia, a former slave and Jim Crow state, can elect a black governor, then I don't think it is nearly impossible for Obama to win the Presidential election . I don't think black people will be well off or have political advantages over any other race just because a black person is elected as president.

I find it very insulting when committees are formed in congress like the black caucus, whose purpose is devoted to addressing and attempting to solved problems in the black community " as if black people are a one dimensional group and therefore, more or less, have the same problems. I don't like when Michelle says something along the lines of " Well the reason why black people are apprehensive at electing a black president, is because in the back of OUR minds, we think their isn't a chance that the black person will be president" ARgghHH! Statements like that annoyed me! She talks as if blacks act and think collectively, and therefore have no independent thoughts outside the black community!

I think there is racism in this election. However, most people are acknowledging only the white racism of the election and not the black racism that seems to be popping up in the election. I'm not trying to say their are more black racists in this election than white racists, I am saying that all forms of racism should be targeted, not just white racism. Racism is racism, regardless of what race is purporting racism. The only way to fight racism is not to bring of the race of the person , PERIOD!

 

[sketchtrack]

Kerry did not win on the issues. Security is an issue and, as you mentioned, it happened to be the most important issue that election cycle. In this current election McCain is the more mainstream candidate, by far. So if people vote strictly on the issues then McCain wins.

The difference between this election and last is that on charisma Obama smashes McCain. Kerry didn't have any of that going for him against Bush. If Obama wins it will be an election of charisma over issues.

I completely disagree. I followed that election very close, and I think Kerry blew Bush out of the water on the issue of security. I don't get the charisma thing either, Obama just talks intelligently and expresses a more thought out deeper view. The same with John Kerry. It isn't that Bush isn't charismatic, it is just that he wasn't as talented, or he just didn't care as much about issues. I think McCain is the one trying to be charismatic, and that is partly why he is successful. Calling Obama charismatic is just a way to deny that his talent and blame his success on charisma which is moronic in my opinion.

 

[Evo]

Funny, Obama's personality has always been a turn off for me, I'm trying to get past him being such a chameleon. That has always been my impression of him, that he is a different person depending on the group he's pandering to and it turns me off. I have a "gift' for seeing through people that has always been right, he seems to be too focused on being elected and will do and say anything to get there. It seems a lot more people are noticing this, including his staff, from what I've read lately. I know, I was told that's what politicians do, but he's so transparent at it. I keep asking myself, "who is Obama, really?", what does he really believe in, because at times it's really hard to tell.

McCain has turned me off by coming out strongly against the things I believe in, but at least I know where he stands. So, I can't see me voting for him. Also, he has chipmunk cheeks, you can't have a president with chipmunk cheeks.

benzoate, I agree completely about people speaking of blacks like they are a colony of ants.

 

[Dale]

I think Kerry blew Bush out of the water on the issue of security.

It is kind of hard to take your political analysis seriously here.

 

[sketchtrack]

It seams funny to me that people say Obama is trying to hard to get elected. If two people were racing in the olympics, would you say one is trying to hard to win? I think the people who are trying too hard are the people who have to cheat, lie, and use sneaky cowardly tactics. It is a no brainer that the Republican party is king of that. I think talk radio propaganda may be the deciding factor.

 

[Dale]

Also, he has chipmunk cheeks, you can't have a president with chipmunk cheeks.

:rofl: Hehe, I hadn't noticed, but you are right.

 

[sketchtrack]

It is kind of hard to take your political analysis seriously here.

Do you remember the debate. Bush failed miserably after 911 by letting the Taliban get away in Afganistan and concentrating on Iraq. Bush clearly had personal interests he put before the interests of National Security. Kerry is a war vet and was an officer, Bush cheated his way out of the draft and got into the National Guard based on a bribe from his father.

Kerry was hammered for speaking out to end the war in vietnam, which shows he had the guts to speak up and do what was right. Kerry got hammered for telling the truth that people were offended by.

I can't see any way of looking at it that makes Bush look better on National Security than Kerry.

 

[Dale]

I find it very insulting when committees are formed in congress like the black caucus, whose purpose is devoted to addressing and attempting to solved problems in the black community " as if black people are a one dimensional group ... She talks as if blacks act and think collectively, and therefore have no independent thoughts outside the black community!

I agree that this is insulting and sad. Unfortunately, since '64 the black community has voted >80% for Democrats, often more than 90%. That strong of a bias in any particular demographic makes this kind of one-dimensional treatment politically inevitable.

 

[sketchtrack]

The average american wants a president that they can have a beer with, someone who isn't all intellectual like, someone who isn't going to talk your ear off about things you don't understand.

 

[WarPhalange]

Look around your average bar. Do you see any presidents sitting there?*

*Joke stolen from Comedy Central.

 

[sketchtrack]

I'll certainly would never vote for a Yankees fan.