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The more political thread besides Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants scientific one

  1. Aug 12, 2011 #461

    Astronuc

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    I agree. It is an example of someone who does not have direct experience with commercial power reactors. The first speaker was involved as a manager at TMI-2, then at OCRWM (DOE Spent Fuel Management system). In the US, most utilities opted for repairing cracked shrouds, as opposed to replacing them. That is the more typical approach. The Japanese tend to be a bit more conservative, and they elected to replace that shroud. Shroud replacement is pretty straight-forward, but it means that one has an irradiated shroud to bury somewhere, and when the reactor is shutdown and decommissioned, there will be a second shroud to bury somewhere.

    Remember, the speakers are speaking to an audience who probably have some background or interest in nuclear energy.
     
  2. Aug 14, 2011 #462

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110809p2g00m0dm009000c.html [Broken] (English) "Kan calls for study on scrapping Monju fast-breeder reactor"

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/editorial/T110810004371.htm [Broken] (English) "Kan irresponsibly toying with nuclear policy review"

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/news/20110814-OYT1T00481.htm?from=main1 [Broken] At 10:40 AM on 13 August, a gas fired electric power plant made an automatic emergency shut-down, as a gas turbine blade is damaged, bringing Kansai Electric's remaining capacity to 29,420,000 KW, 6% lower than the estimated maximum demand of 31,380,000 KW.
     
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  3. Aug 14, 2011 #463
    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    Sudden attack of common sense, eh? Let's hope he pulls it off. I'm almost beginning to like this Kan fellow.
     
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  4. Aug 17, 2011 #464

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0817/TKY201108170379.html Tohoku Electric shuts down a 350,000 KW fire-powered electricity generating plant in Akita where a steam leak was found. This is adding to the temporary loss of 1,000,000 KW from dozens of dams in Niigata and Fukushima prefectures, that suffered the heavy rains in July.

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_31.html [Broken] Fukushima [Daiichi] plant chief apologizes over the accident

     
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  5. Aug 18, 2011 #465

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://www.nikkei.com/life/news/art...DE2E0E3EAEAE7E6E2E0E3E3E0E0E2E2EBE2E2E2E2E2E2 Naoto Kan was seen at Yaesu Book Centre buying 5 books including 2 nuclear power related books. One of them is "Emergency explanation! Fukushima Daiichi accident and radiations" by [NHK Senior Science Commentator] Noriyuki Mizuno. Buying former Fukushima governor Eisaku Sato's book "The Annihilation of a Governor", he let his lingering attachment to exit-from-nuclear show up.

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20110818/t10014990311000.html [Broken] Because of the 38°C heat wave in inland areas, Tepco's demand reached its highest peak for this summer at 49,500,000 KW or 90% of capacity at 2:15 PM, 18 August.
     
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  6. Aug 18, 2011 #466
    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/movie/feature_nuclear.html [Broken]

    Power promotion scandal... Hummm I smile looking at this story about Chubu electric manipulating public opinion with the nuclear watchdog being also promoting what they were supposed to regulate, the two departments being under the same ministery...

    Scandal? But isn't the real scandal the fact that they seem to just doscover this now??? Frankly, is it real news ot tales for children? Everybody seems ok TODAY to say this is unacceptable, that this is a closed system, and so on, but really that's a little bit easy to jump on this position NOW!

    This story about bringing in 30% of the audience to a public consultation is ONE the hundreds strategies used to orientate opinion, and achieve strategic goals, that's all. You could call it manipulation, but politically correct novlang is talking about normal lobbying i guess...

    Not only in Japan, everywhere. Here in France state is promoting nuclear energy so talking about independancy is just a joke. French state is promoting nuclear energy AND is supposed also to regulate it... (laugh).

    There is always a time when everybody seems to wake up (or fakes to wake up?) and say: "Oh Oh Ohhhh this is not normal shame on them (Hummm... on us maybe?). This is comedy for the public.

    I you were saying it before, you were just a stupid guy with no knowledge about it, just talking about ideology and politics. Say it now and nobody even listen to you because EVERYBODY adopted it as the "normal way of behaving" once the crisis happened. How many examples of this in nuclear business around the world (known or not yet revealed)? Hundreds, thousands?

    Let's smile.
     
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  7. Aug 18, 2011 #467
    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    In the 1980s the government in the German state of Bavaria was planning to build a nuclear reprocessing plant near its eastern part, a region with low incomes and high unemployment. The state is politically quite conservative. The assumption was that when people have few alternatives, they'll swallow anything (not unlike a lot of fishing villages around that coasts of Japan, I could add). However, things turned out very differently, with steadily growing resistance and civil disobedience.

    When trees were felled in the forest for the construction site in December 1985, people from all over the country occupied the site. Thousands of locals joined them. When the police finally cleared a "hut village" built from felled logs, they sealed off the site at night during sub-zero temperatures. Friends of mine who were there told me how the police allowed anyone to leave if they spoke the local dialect, but isolated all the non-locals who were then arrested. When the police action was reported in the news, of course all the trouble makers were supposedly from outside the region, as if there was no local support at all. It was a slap in the face of all the locals opposing the project.

    Likewise, later on, when a steel and razor wire security fence had been erected around the construction site, TV cameras always concentrated on the "anarchist corner", a spot where militants tried to cut the steel fence with hand saws while being showered by water cannons, meanwhile ignoring thousands of ordinary families of all ages from the region who came there every Sunday afternoon for "Sunday walkabouts", unofficial demonstrations. I saw some of these walkers targeted by water cannons from inside the fence hundreds of meters from any acts of violence, without any provocation, but such scenes never made it into the evening news.

    I watched the events with my own eyes during the day and then in disbelief saw how it was twisted and distorted in the news in the evening. It was a real eye opener for many people in the region. It back-fired in a massive way. Civil disobedience escalated (helped along by the Chernobyl disaster that arrived in the middle of it). The situation ended up so out of control that the electricity companies who provided the funding got cold feet and withdrew their support for the project.

    The Wackersdorf reprocessing plant was never built, but for those of us who experienced the struggle from personal experience as well as through the official media, the lessons have remained. Politicians and mass media need constant pressure from citizens to remain honest.
     
  8. Aug 24, 2011 #468

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    Moody's cuts Japan's debt rating on deficit concerns:
     
  9. Aug 25, 2011 #469

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    A worldwide review of political consequences :
     
  10. Aug 25, 2011 #470

    NUCENG

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    Another excellent article tsutsuji.

    Of course when I see terms such as "cycle of addiction" and "culture of dependency," I see implicit criticism of past decisions made based on economic considerations and freedom of commerce (aka Capitalism). In spite of that, I think it was a good article.

    But the bottom line of this article is that there is also a social and political side to major economic decisions and that is a very clear truth. Germany, and Italy, have chosen to go away from Nuclear power. Japan is struggling with keeping their economy going under severe power shortages. But these countries must be responsive to their citizens. The choices they make are theirs to make and that should include honest considerations of the consequences of those decisions. If this results in a return to coal and oil even for an interim measure, the health, environmental, economic, social, and political consequences of that decision will be just as much their responsibility.

    The engineers prayer: "Oh God, please make my blunders wise."
     
  11. Aug 29, 2011 #471

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://www.asahi.com/international/jinmin/TKY201108280138.html The NISA announced comparisons between Fukushima (the power plant) and Hiroshima (the atomic bomb) while saying both events are quite different: Fukushima has released 168 times as much cesium, 2.5 times as much iodine, 2.4 times as much strontium as Hiroshima.
     
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  12. Aug 29, 2011 #472

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    This reminds me of the page I read on the Onodekita blog, written by Dr. Ono, the owner of a clinic with the same name in Kumamoto, who says he lived in Tomioka, Fukushima prefecture for 5 years in his twenties from 1988 to 2003 where he enjoyed such things as the Yonomori cherry trees or the near annoying singing of the frogs, the flight of the fireflies in the night or the cold bath in the Ocean in summer, answering a reader comment on the difference between Soviet governed Chernobyl and the supposedly democratically chosen Japanese nuclear industry: "What is the difference with opium addiction?" : http://onodekita.sblo.jp/article/47494573.html

    http://www.nikkei.com/news/headline...19481E0EBE2E6908DE0EBE2EAE0E2E3E39797E3E2E2E2 Hokkaido electric renounces to start "pluthermal" (using MOX) at its Tomari Nuclear plant in spring 2012, as an investigation is launched over the E-mails asking employees to support pluthermal in a symposium in 2008 ( see also http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110827p2a00m0na011000c.html [Broken] in English).
     
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  13. Aug 30, 2011 #473

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    August 12 point of view, by Genichiro Takahashi, a novelist and professor at Meiji Gakuin University :

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-fukushima/20110830/0510_10kmkennai.html The Atomic Energy Commission of Japan will resume its work on the revision of the "Framework for Nuclear Energy Policy" in September. Discussing such issues as the fuel reprocessing plant in Aomori prefecture and the Monju fast breeder in Fukui prefecture, they plan to come up with a policy plan after one year. With the purpose of learning the lessons from the nuclear accident, they are studying the possibility of including contributions from specialists on issues like "safety" and "international problems".
     
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  14. Aug 31, 2011 #474
    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    Watering down IAEA's wine:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/30/us-nuclear-safety-iaea-idUSTRE77T1MH20110830
     
  15. Aug 31, 2011 #475

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    The isotope data for each event are provided on http://www.meti.go.jp/press/2011/08/20110826010/20110826010-2.pdf [Broken] : top page= Fukushima units 1,2,3,total ; bottom page=Hiroshima.

    I was wondering why the NISA had produced these figures:
    "80% of Japan's reactors out of service":
     
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  16. Sep 1, 2011 #476
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  17. Sep 6, 2011 #477

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    2 September Prime Minister Noda press conference:
    6 September: "The number of Japan's nuclear power plants would be "zero" in the future":
    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atmoney/news/20110906-OYT1T00392.htm?from=y10 [Broken] Newly appointed minister of Economy, Trade, and Industry Yoshio Hachiro spoke about the 14 new reactors that were planned to be built by 2030. It is "difficult" to build new facilities. The construction sites that were started at Oma and Higashidori are "frozen". What to think about this state of affairs "will be studied". The progress of Oma's construction work is 40%. Last May Democratic Party secretary general visited Oma and said "if we don't use already being built facilities while upgrading their safety, we can't cover Japan's electric power needs". The people who are expecting the reopening of construction work at Oma are "surprised" by Yoshio Hachiro's comment. On the other hand an official of an against-Oma-NPP citizen group said he wishes the decision to stop all 14 new reactors is taken soon.
     
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  18. Sep 8, 2011 #478

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110908a4.html [Broken] [Saga prefectoral assembly special committee on nuclear safety] "Panel chief quits over funds scandal"

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/08_23.html [Broken] "[Niigata] Governor Hirohiko Izumida has said conducting stress tests will not lead to the prefecture approving of the resumption of such reactors. He has indicated that his prefecture will not make a decision on the matter until the results of investigations into the Fukushima accident are published."
     
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  19. Sep 9, 2011 #479

    tsutsuji

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politics/news/110909/plc11090900340000-n1.htm From yesterday's press conference in Fukushima city. Journalist: Is the middle term storing of nuclear waste outside Fukushima prefecture also considered ? Noda:Yes this is also considered. Hosono:I have been in charge of this issue since the Kan administration. There is no change of the thought that we have no other choice than asking this to Fukushima prefecture. Journalist:Does the Prime Minister share that view? Noda:Yes.

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/editorial/T110907004931.htm [Broken] English version of 7 September Yomiuri Shimbun editorial : "Noda should ditch denuclearization policy" : "If [supplementary thermal power generation cost] is passed on to users, electricity charges will increase by 20 percent for ordinary households and nearly 40 percent for corporations"."As there are, for now, no solid prospects of securing substitute power sources, it is too early to totally deny the possibility that a new nuclear plant will be constructed".
     
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  20. Sep 9, 2011 #480

    NUCENG

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    Re: The "more political thread" besides "Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants" scientific

    What does it tell you?

    That a doctor was out of control?

    That he was caught?

    That his colleagues weren't paying attention?

    That Japanese people in general want to irradiate all their children?
     
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