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jammieg
What is hate?
Originally posted by jammieg
I hold this to be true, that when people truly understand each other they can't harm each other.
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
I say yin-yang, schming-shang. We must strive to understand how irrational and dangerous hate really is. Now, I'm not saying to suppress your emotions to the point that you explode, but we must learn to reduce hate as much as we can.
Originally posted by Elledan
'Hate', like all other 'negative' emotions, is a side-effect of the failure to understand something.
It requires energy to visualize the cause-effect process as well as similar relations between things. Failing to accomplish this, this energy instead is converted into what is commonly referred to as 'negative emotions'.
Originally posted by Thallium
Hate is absolutely not a consequence of ignorance as you imply here.
"The side-effect of the failure to understand something". We may understand Hitler's ferocious attitude towards Jews and his hate for everyone of a non-Aryan origin, but this understanding we have does not mean that we will not hate him for it. (At least those who do not agree with his views)
The thing is that no one 'hates' something. 'Hate' is just the name given to a particular feeling, a feeling which is merely a symptom of another process, namely that of trying to fit that which one sees in one's sense of 'order'.Originally posted by Thallium
That depends on what you hate.
One 'fights' to make everything appear consistent with one's sense of 'order'.If your hate is a fight towards something evil, then the hate should not be made into anything else than hate. Loving and understanding the value in everything is impossible, and to do this you must have multiple personalities and not make any stands against something. Antagonism is a part of us, we fight for something we love and whatever fights against this, we deject and oppose against with hate. Not always of course.
Never once did I mention "ignorance". I used the term "failure to understand something", referring to the inability of one to 'fit' something in one's perception of one's surroundings.Hate is absolutely not a consequence of ignorance as you imply here.
Once one moves on to a more realistic sense of 'order', one founded on a more solid scientific basis, things like the example you gave are easy to explain."The side-effect of the failure to understand something". We may understand Hitler's ferocious attitude towards Jews and his hate for everyone of a non-Aryan origin, but this understanding we have does not mean that we will not hate him for it. (At least those who do not agree with his views)
I think hate is an emotion that stems from a feeling of inadequacy against a particular situation that goes against what you want or need.Originally posted by jammieg
What is hate?
Exactly.Originally posted by Evo
I think hate is an emotion that stems from a feeling of inadequacy against a particular situation that goes against what you want or need.
I disagree. There's no rational version of 'hate'.Originally posted by NIT14
This is my philosophy of "hate."
There are two different kinds of "hate." First, we have the irrational hate, which accomplishes nothing and is the result of ignorance. This hate is probably a product of anger and/or frustration. And on the other hand, we have the rational version of hate. When we understand something to be malicious to ourselves, or something essential to us, we tend to hate whatever that element may be. But we hate it for good reason. This hate is the product of love, and usually rational and responsible fear.
I think what NIT14 was trying to say was that hate might be justified if it was directed against an actual evil or threat, not a 'witch,' or some unreasonable scapegoat for all of life's problems.Originally posted by Elledan
What you call a 'rational' version of hate is in fact no different from the hate of people during the Middle Ages when confronted with a 'witch', or 'possessed' individual.
Well, I hate them. I don't see how one couldn't. Our hatred for them is precisely what prevents them. I suppose it's just a matter of what you believe we are and aren't allowed to prevent.Would you say it's okay to hate child predators?
However, one can only hate what one doesn't understand. As long as one perceives the snake (to use your example) as a threat without attemping to grok the snake's nature and motives, that snake remains a bogeyman: the subject of irrational fear and hatred.Originally posted by NIT14
What I meant was that "rational hate" is something that occurs when one is confronted with an issue that is critical to his survival, or something to that extent. For example, if insects were rational entities, with the ability to feel emotion, it would be rational for them to hate snakes because the snake is what eats them. Their hate would kind of be a defense mechanism, in a sense. I'm not sure if you can understand what I'm saying through that strange example, but my point was that I believe "hate" isn't always irrational, and is at times necessary.
No, one can definitely hate what he understands. The insect realizes the snake is not his friend. He understands that the snake must eat him to survive, but he is not interested in the snakes interests. Therefore, he hates him, because the snake is a detriment to his agenda and survival. How can it be irrational to hate something that you clearly understand and when you know exactly where the hatred arises from? I understand exactly what "child predators" are, and I hate them for good reason.However, one can only hate what one doesn't understand. As long as one perceives the snake (to use your example) as a threat without attemping to grok the snake's nature and motives, that snake remains a bogeyman: the subject of irrational fear and hatred.
This is where you are wrong.Originally posted by NIT14
How can it be irrational to hate something that you clearly understand and when you know exactly where the hatred arises from? I understand exactly what "child predators" are, and I hate them for good reason.
Well, I see what you are saying, and you're right in a sense. I certainly do not understand the mind of a child molester. Being one yourself is probably a prerequisite to have this understanding.You do not understand "child predators", just like you aren't capable of explaining and predicting human behaviour.
Well, I screwed up. I should have said "one can only hate something which one fears." instead of "One hates that which one fears." :)Originally posted by Thallium
I am not familiar with space. I do not know it, but I do not hate it.
On the contrary, I love it because its unfamiliarity is so exciting and mysterious.
Speaking as a scientist, isn't the essence of the scientific method that a theory is right until it is sufficiently proven to be wrong? I have not found sufficient evidence to discredit any of the theories I've explained in my posts in this thread. In that regard I am right and the post I replied to is wrong.You should never say "You are wrong" to anyone Elledan. In a philosophy forum of course we expect logical reasoning andwellfounded arguments, which you have done very well here, but never say "You are wrong" because you might not be right yourself and "You arew wrong" is not a very discouraging comment. Say rather, in my opinion.
Wrong. I seek explanations, understanding. Explaining emotions was just one of the many things that had to be done to reach this goal.It appears that you seek a perfect human that does not hate.
The problem is that this is hardly a rational explanation. You're going for the mystical approach by making unfounded statements, like "[..] even though hate, grief and anger are irrational feelings, as you claim, we need them.". In what way do we need them?I disagree. We do not hate everything we do not know, as illustrated above, and even though hate, grief and anger are irrational feelings, as you claim, we need them. We were born with hormones and brains that are capable of responding with such feelings. These feelings are produced by chemicals, nerve impulses and genes for that matter. Negative emotions sustain the balance that we need.
On this I completely disagree. Humans become tired of living because they're not really living. Instead they're resisting it by not recognizing reality. What's wearing them out is the discrepancy between their sense of order (pretence) and reality.If all was Heaven and Merry-go-around, we would become tired and weary of living.
I understand all of those states of mind which you mentioned. They're fully explainable in a scientifically acceptable manner.No one understands child predators, rapists, psychopaths etc etc. Hate is natural and acceptable reaction, though seemingly not to you.
We are living organisms yet, and we are stunning, amazing, powerful, yet foolish and irrational. Accept it. A struggle towards something better would be desperate.