The Physics Of Astrology

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The Physics of Astrology thread was deleted so I thought I'd get it up again for y'all. (Isn't that special )

If you have any data concerning this topic please post it here. It was mentioned by some of the previous posters that there may be a certian amount of influence, as complicated as it may be and as miniscule as it may be, from each and every celestial object within a certain radius of the planet earth. The Sun being one of the most influencial.

What I concluded, temporarily, was that the effects of all the gravitational and mineral and so on sources surrounding our planet on human genetic and hormonal constitution could be explained by way of Quantum Mechanics and other theories like String theory. In these postulates the concept of distance and time are nulified and this would facilitate an understanding of how the physical effects of a distant star could effect the tiny birth of an infant human,here on earth.

Any further discussion on this topic would help to illuminate the concept of "The Physics of Astrology".
 

Kerrie

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this is the kind of thread i love...anyone have any questions regarding the astrology theory, ask them here and i will be happy to answer the best i can from the 12 years of observing people, reading and studying in an astrological perspective...
 
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i'm reading a book about mayan prophecy and it's co written by a man name cotterel. he did a lot of research about astrology and sun spots. i'm not too far into the book, but there was a part about astrology not being based on stars, but merely the path of the sun. the stars just being a backround. also there was something about astrology is really about conception and not the birth, and like how sun spots or something about the suns magnetic feild affects the fetus. but i'll reread some and read some more, and get back to ya's.
 

Kerrie

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Originally posted by Gale17
i'm reading a book about mayan prophecy and it's co written by a man name cotterel. he did a lot of research about astrology and sun spots. i'm not too far into the book, but there was a part about astrology not being based on stars, but merely the path of the sun. the stars just being a backround. also there was something about astrology is really about conception and not the birth, and like how sun spots or something about the suns magnetic feild affects the fetus. but i'll reread some and read some more, and get back to ya's.
astrology is based on the path of the earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...
 
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Originally posted by Kerrie
astrology is based on the path of the earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...
How much "free will" can an organism have when the constraints and laws of the universe determine its very physical property?

I don't think using the term "free will" or the resulting semantic debates that come with that term will serve as a resource in formultating a type of physics that explains Astrology.

I would think it would be far better to actually discover and formulate the physics going on behind the influences ascribed to what is known as Astrology.

Since a personality trait and a life path are both determined by physical elements (suchas: genetics, molecular arrangements, morphologies, endocrinology, environment, chemistry... etc.) then, what is it about the physical presence and constitution of planets, suns, arrangements of solar systems (ie: constelations) etc. that effects the above mentioned physical attributes of living organisms?

Is there a physics formula or formuli that explain the relationship of cause and effect between celestial bodies and terrestrial organisms and their observable traits?
 
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Dal

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Physics that explains astrology? Wow...
 

Kerrie

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quantumcarl...astrology is only theory at this point and an art that uses the physical locations of the planets/sun and intuition in interpreting how these aspects REFLECT human tendencies, otherwise the topic wouldn't be in mystics and psuedo science if there was a scientific explanation in our current understanding of our world:wink:

it is based on the law of correspondeces which is:

as above, so below
as within, so without
as the universe, so the soul


those who practice astrology honestly realize what force moves the celestial bodies also moves us...we are all connected to the universe (whether we can "see" it or not with our tool of science), and the cycles of the planets and celestial bodies in motion reflect what is going on within ourselves...

this is the closest we one can come to the scientific explanation of astrology, as it is not a science...it is a tool used to study the cycles of reflection of the heavenly bodies to our souls...trying to explain gravitational pull on us in forumuls and such will only "disprove" it even more...the best form of proof is to study it for yourself...i consider myself someone who questions as much as possible, and astrology never ceases to amaze me in how well it can pinpoint reflections...
 

Ivan Seeking

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Originally posted by Kerrie
this is the kind of thread i love...anyone have any questions regarding the astrology theory, ask them here and i will be happy to answer the best i can from the 12 years of observing people, reading and studying in an astrological perspective...
I have always had an informal interest in this even though I have never been inclined to truly believe in the phenomenon. This does not mean that I dismiss it either. I really wouldn't try to define my "beliefs" on this subject.

What is thought to be the underlying energy or concept that enables this to happen? I hear people talk about energy and frequencies. Is there an accepted language for this idea? How does it happen? [I don't mean a scientific explanation]

How many variations of this art form exist? [Is art form an OK term to use without insulting anyone?] Are there different schools of thought that compete and argue - like we do here?

How much relevance do you feel that this has in our lives? For example, how much different is someone's life as a function of "following" astrology for guidance?

Do you feel that astrology could simply represent a greater set of harmonics? Not that the planets and such actually affect our lives, but rather that they act like clocks or meters: thus acting to measure some greater unrealized source of influence? For example, [this is just a wild what if- no attacks please] lets assume that ZPE in this region of the universe varies due to several factors that we don't understand. Let’s further assume that variations in the ZPE effects human behavior "among other things". If some periodic pattern exists that causes these changes in the local ZPE, then these might coincide with other observed periodic patterns. So even though we assign a cause and effect relationship to the planet's positions, they are really just telling us our phase in the ZPE cycle. Do you feel that an explanation such as this could exist - all specific references aside? If not, why?
 
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astrology is based on the path of the earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...
in what i'm reading now, the guy thinks that traits such inwardness and outwardness and agression or passiveness are directly related to the sun's magnetic influence on the earth. because sunspots are cyclitic and they have a definite infuluence on the earth's magnetic feilds, he feels that they are responsible for effecting people as they grow in the womb. the growth of the fetus being directly influenced by the earths magnetic feild, causing certain charactersistics in the full grown babe.

i guess his ideas were controversial and were poorly accepted by the astologic community. but the math about the cycles of sunspots and zodiac cycles and all that seemed ok. but again, i haven't finished reading the book, and i'm no expert on his theories.
 

Phobos

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Originally posted by Kerrie
astrology is based on the path of the earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...
I'm curious...what was the effect on the astrological community when they found out the Earth went around the sun (and not visa versa as was believed for so long)? Or I suppose that is irrelevant since only what appears along the ecliptic matters to astrologers (not the actual physics of the system).
 
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Phobos

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more curiousity...
How does an astrologer translate the physics (the mathematics of the positions of the planets and stars in relation to the Earth) into verse that reflects the human conditions. How does 1 + 2 = a tendency to be moody?
 
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Capernicus

Phobos (don't be afraid )

What really happened with the Capernicus dude?

Did he simply find documents that already stated the truth about the constitution and mechanism of this solar system?

Once he found them did he confirm them with his own well directed observations?

In many bas reliefs and heiroglyphs of the Sumerian civilization and others there are depictions of the Sun at the center of 9 planets. These were carved over 5000 years ago... give or take a few thousand years (since a dating technique for carven stone has yet to be invented).

Astrology is as old as the hills. In fact it is linked to these same civilizations I have mentioned above.

So, in answer to your question... I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of the solar system and the other celestial objects in earth's vicinity was lost to certain groups and retained by others. Thus we see a continuance of the proper configuration of the Solar System in one milue whereas in another there is a complete ignorance with regard to spherical planets, orbits and so on.
 

Kerrie

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ivan~

What is thought to be the underlying energy or concept that enables this to happen? I hear people talk about energy and frequencies. Is there an accepted language for this idea? How does it happen? [I don't mean a scientific explanation]
the same force that moves the planets move us...yes, its generic, but true

gale~

because sunspots are cyclitic and they have a definite infuluence on the earth's magnetic feilds, he feels that they are responsible for effecting people as they grow in the womb.
this is more of a direct impact from the sun rather then the reflection of astrology...

phobos~

How does an astrologer translate the physics (the mathematics of the positions of the planets and stars in relation to the Earth) into verse that reflects the human conditions. How does 1 + 2 = a tendency to be moody?
these interpretations are a result of studying the reflections of aspects to people's typical behaviors...when an individual becomes "aware", they begin to exercise their free will and either correct negative tendencies or strengthen positive ones...
 
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Hi Kerry

What I tend to extract from your statements here is that a quantum effect exists between people and celestial objects.

They are depending on one another to be defined. Simultaneous existance is required. Nothing comes first. People define the celestial and the celestial defines people. (as above... etc...)

This is what I get from your use of the word "reflections" when you speak of the behaviors and tendancies of people being effected by the celestial objects. This is a basic tenant of Philosophy... it deals purely with cerebral indications (concepts) and does not address the physical realm in which we find ourselves existing.

I realise there are many who see unseen forces at work, governing all of the physical plane. However there is no way in hell to prove they exist. Besides, the Physical governs the unseen as much as the unseen governs the physical... if my calculations are correct!

That's why I am going the often traveled route and looking for the actual Physics equation that describes the function, mechanism and cause and consequences inherent in an Astrological Forcast or Diagnosis of a person's physical presense.

You say astrology is only a theory. I say that at one time the whole thing was a science and has since dwindled to a psuedoscience... at least in the minds of most people.

I actually believe there already exists a ton of equations that fully explain the functions we are talking about in this thread.

Ach!
 
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Kerrie

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QC, I will rephrase what I should have stated in the beginning...
Astrology is considered a theory by scientific definition...

in my personal experience, knowledge and understanding of astrology, i feel it does reflect a great deal of the human motives...

as in reflection, i do not mean an impact of the planetary aspects to the human soul...a mirror does not affect you in your reflection, but you have the ability to see your reflection...this is how astrology works...

now as far as the physical equation for astrology...there lacks one in our current understanding of science, and that is why it is often dismissed as psuedoscience...
 

Phobos

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Re: Capernicus

Originally posted by quantumcarl
In many bas reliefs and heiroglyphs of the Sumerian civilization and others there are depictions of the Sun at the center of 9 planets. These were carved over 5000 years ago... give or take a few thousand years (since a dating technique for carven stone has yet to be invented).
I am not familiar with these images, however, I am skeptical that they are intended to represent the sun and our currently defined 9 planets. Only 5 planets (maybe 6 if you're lucky) are visible to the naked eye. No one can see Neptune or Pluto without binocs/telescope. Also, there is still a scientific debate as to whether Pluto is a planet or not. Although I am fine with calling it a planet, I have a hard time imagining that ancient cultures would attribute any significance to it compared to the rest of the solar system (of course, again, no one knew Pluto existed until about 1920).

Astrology is as old as the hills. In fact it is linked to these same civilizations I have mentioned above.

So, in answer to your question... I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of the solar system and the other celestial objects in earth's vicinity was lost to certain groups and retained by others. Thus we see a continuance of the proper configuration of the Solar System in one milue whereas in another there is a complete ignorance with regard to spherical planets, orbits and so on.
Do you think Europeans from the middle ages used the same techniques as the ancient Sumarians? Were some astrologers right and others completely wrong? Where did current methods come from? Where are all these ancient methods recorded?
 

Phobos

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Originally posted by Kerrie
these interpretations are a result of studying the reflections of aspects to people's typical behaviors...when an individual becomes "aware", they begin to exercise their free will and either correct negative tendencies or strengthen positive ones...
So, typical behaviors were applied to typical star/planet positions? (i.e., our behavior was projected/reflected onto the zodiac....kind of a seeking of correlations?)

Doesn't it get kind of confusing to know if the process is working or not if free will can overcome tendencies? Seems like a case for selective perception. i.e., whenever there is an astrological "miss", it can simply be attributed to free will.
 

Kerrie

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Originally posted by Phobos
So, typical behaviors were applied to typical star/planet positions? (i.e., our behavior was projected/reflected onto the zodiac....kind of a seeking of correlations?)

Doesn't it get kind of confusing to know if the process is working or not if free will can overcome tendencies? Seems like a case for selective perception. i.e., whenever there is an astrological "miss", it can simply be attributed to free will.
i am not sure to what "process" you are referring to...astrology is not a process of anything...it is a tool that reflects common tendencies of human nature with the aspects of the planets, and the art is in the interpretation of these aspects...in the instance that someone does not "match up" to the typical tendencies the chart would reflect could be attributed to personal life experience that has altered that typical characteristic...

once a person has their chart done, there can be a deeper understanding gained of personal issues, fears, dreams and patterns of behavior...astrology is a tool that helps us understand what our potentials are as well...
 
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Re: Re: Capernicus

Originally posted by Phobos
(of course, again, no one knew Pluto existed until about 1920).
Do you have a poll from a large portion of the earth's population done during the subsequent years before 1920 to back-up your statement?

Originally posted by Phobos

Do you think Europeans from the middle ages used the same techniques as the ancient Sumarians? Were some astrologers right and others completely wrong? Where did current methods come from? Where are all these ancient methods recorded?
If I knew that I wouldn't have started this thread. Those are the types of data I require to formulate the formuli that show the physical relationships between celestial bodies and those bodies of the organisms known as humans.
 

Kerrie

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"...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens
for one who desires to see it, and having seen it,
to find one in himself."


~plato
 
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Originally posted by Kerrie
"...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens
for one who desires to see it, and having seen it,
to find one in himself."


~plato
Thanks Kerrie.

Perhaps it is the inconsistant masses, minerals, gases and luminary qualities we can find from planet to planet... sun to sun... nebula to nebula and galaxy to galaxy that explain the differing effects on each individual. Plus you will find that each person, although 98 percent made of water, will also have an inconsistant array of minerals and chemicals when compared to the next.

One could begin to classify groups with so much of one mineral and groups with more of another... until we had a semblence of the 12 zodiacial groups... or more.

There would be much research involved where each member of each group would have to be monitored for mineral migrations or elicitation, hormonal and neurotransmiting chemicals. These observations would have to take place during specific astological phases.

The pattern that emerges from this sort (not necessarily this actual example of a set-up) may in fact reveal some of the mystery behind the processes that enable us to observe astrological accuracies.
 

Phobos

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Originally posted by Kerrie
i am not sure to what "process" you are referring to...astrology is not a process of anything...it is a tool that reflects common tendencies of human nature with the aspects of the planets, and the art is in the interpretation of these aspects...in the instance that someone does not "match up" to the typical tendencies the chart would reflect could be attributed to personal life experience that has altered that typical characteristic...

once a person has their chart done, there can be a deeper understanding gained of personal issues, fears, dreams and patterns of behavior...astrology is a tool that helps us understand what our potentials are as well...
Thanks for the explanation, Kerrie. Perhaps I'm being to objective about it (what results does astrology give and are those results accurate). Based on your description, it sounds more like a subjective way to think about one's life experiences. Not that I think astrology works, but I have a deeper appreciation for what you are doing.
 

Phobos

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Re: Re: Re: Capernicus

Originally posted by quantumcarl
Do you have a poll from a large portion of the earth's population done during the subsequent years before 1920 to back-up your statement?
Good one. :smile: No, I suppose I don't. But what I have is the knowledge (mathematically and first-hand) that Pluto is too faint to be seen by naked eye along with the history of scientific discovery (astronomy) which indicates that Pluto was not discovered by telescope until 1930. (sorry I said 1920 before!)

If I knew that I wouldn't have started this thread. Those are the types of data I require to formulate the formuli that show the physical relationships between celestial bodies and those bodies of the organisms known as humans.
Fair enough. Let me know if your hypothesized mechanism for astrological forces pans out (i.e., what you mentioned to Kerrie above). So far, I don't see any way for the positions of stars, etc. to affect our lives in a manner that astrologers claim.
 
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Kerrie

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So far, I don't see any way for the positions of stars, etc. to affect our lives in a manner that astrologers claim.
i would like to know what astrologer claims this...astrology does not have any affect on anyone, it merely reflects...
 

hypnagogue

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This is more or less a reiteration of what Kerrie has said thus far, but maybe it will clear up astrology's position a little further. I'm typing this up from a printed astrological report (sorry no links!):

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Astrology is as old as measured time. Although there are many different approaches to astrology, all astrologers appear united in the idea that there is a connection between the heavens and the Earth-- they share one common space. For centuries there has been a misunderstanding concerning the nature of astrology to the effect that the heavens somehow "influence" events here on Earth. This theory of celestial influence has penetrated into the modern world until today it is the main concept or idea of astrology supported by the public-- the lay astrological audience. Professional astrologers do not hold with theories of celestial influence. Instead, the modern astrologer conceives of the heavens and the Earth as united, interpenetrating, and sharing a common space and time. The great cosmic or celestial events happening around and beyond the Earth (eclipses, lineups, and so on) are not seen as CAUSING events to occur on Earth, but as great signatures of events ALSO happening here on Earth. In other words, there is no "cause" in the heavens followed by an "effect" here on Earth. Instead, both planetary and earthly events happen simultaneously and are mutually reflective. Neither is the other here on the Earth below. While astrologers don't feel that heavenly events are the cause of events here on Earth, they do feel that specific heavenly events are enacted here on the Earth-- at the same moment. In other words, there is only one grand "play." The great drama enacted in the sky is also acted out (in exact detail) here on Earth in the same instant. Another way to say this is that the Earth is part of the cosmos and shares in that cosmic moment. Scientists have been discovering (for example) that sunspots, solar flares, and solar activity have a very definite (and almost immediate) effect here on Earth. Astrologers tend to feel that all major cosmic events such as eclipses are interactive; they represent an activity also taking place within us and our consciousness. In summary, astrology is a study of heavenly cycles and cosmic events as they are reflected in our earthly environment and vice-versa-- a vast cosmic clock. Astrologers find the cosmic patterns revealed in the rhythmic motions of the planets a great help in shedding light on the seeming helter-skelter of everyday life. Astrologers may have their heads in the heavens, but only to better guide their feet here on Earth.
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Now, what I find interesting about this is that this idea of acausal, meaningful relationships is very much in the spirit of Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity. Jung observed the existence of synchronistic events, which are acausally related and highly meaningful. Typically a synchronicity involves an individual's internal mental state being mirrored by an independent, acausally related external event, hence the synchronicity's meaningful nature. I am currently reading a book which postulates that such correspondances are indications of an underlying symmetry to existence. If nothing else, the fact that Jung came up with his theory based on real life observations (presumably) independently of any inspiration from astrology, and that his theory nontheless characterizes the conceptual framework behind astrology very well, is a provocative connection. Thoughts?
 

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