Race War in America: LA's Compton at the Forefront

[nsaspook]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0126-compton-20130126,0,977110.story

Compton, with a population of about 97,000, was predominantly black for many years. It is now 65% Latino and 33% black, according to the 2010 U.S. census. But it's not only historically black areas that have been targeted.

Federal authorities have alleged in several indictments in the last decade that the Mexican Mafia prison gang has ordered street gangs under its control to attack African Americans. Leaders of the Azusa 13 gang were sentenced to lengthy prison terms earlier this month for leading a policy of attacking African American residents and expelling them from the town.
...
"This gang has always made it clear they have a racial hatred for black people," said Westin, who has worked in the area for more than two decades. "They justify in their own sick minds because of their rivalry with the Compton black gangs. They repeatedly used racial epithets, they use racial hatred graffiti and they tag up the black church a lot."

Is this the future of race relations in America. Has the melting pot been shattered.

 

[Evo]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0126-compton-20130126,0,977110.story

You failed to state what your issue for discussion is.

 

[nanosiborg]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0126-compton-20130126,0,977110.story
Is this the future of race relations in America. Has the melting pot been shattered.

The Latino (largely Mexican?) American demographic is changing and population steadily increasing. If that increase includes a high proportion of gang connected individuals, then it's likely that more situations like that in Compton will occur.

I don't think the melting pot has been shattered yet. Hopefully, peaceful ethnically diverse areas will continue to be the norm for at least the foreseeable future. Whether that's a reasonable hope depends on a lot of factors.

I guess that race relations will continue to be what they've pretty much always been, tense and tenuous.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

The Latino (largely Mexican?) American demographic is changing and population steadily increasing. If that increase includes a high proportion of gang connected individuals, then it's likely that more situations like that in Compton will occur.

I don't think the melting pot has been shattered yet. Hopefully, peaceful ethnically diverse areas will continue to be the norm for at least the foreseeable future.

Urban gang wars and ethnic rivalry have historically gone hand-in-hand with the "melting pot"in the US; for example the Irish-Italian rivalry in New York City in the mid nineteenth century.

http://history1800s.about.com/od/urbanconditions/p/fivepointsnyc.htm

 

[nanosiborg]

Urban gang wars and ethnic rivalry have historically gone hand-in-hand with the "melting pot"; for example the Irish-Italian rivalry in New York City in the mid nineteenth century.

Good point. I edited my post while you were posting yours.

 

[Evo]

I grew up in houston, TX and every night on tv back in the 60's, usually the only violence and murders were between blacks and Mexicans, it goes way back. It's nothing new.

 

[nanosiborg]

I grew up in houston, TX and every night on tv back in the 60's, usually the only violence and murders were between blacks and Mexicans, it goes way back. It's nothing new.

I heard Houston is pretty rough. I wonder if any Texas towns are experiencing what Compton is.

 

[Evo]

I heard Houston is pretty rough. I wonder if any Texas towns are experiencing what Compton is.

It's no different from any large city, you stay out of the bad neighborhoods.

 

[Jack21222]

I don't think I'd call this a "race war," when it's more of a "bigoted gang" issue. If you're going to start calling it a "race war," you'll need to show some evidence that a large portion of a race is involved, and not just a comparatively small violent gang.

 

[nsaspook]

I grew up in houston, TX and every night on tv back in the 60's, usually the only violence and murders were between blacks and Mexicans, it goes way back. It's nothing new.

I also grew up in Texas in the 1960's (family in Houston, Waco and Dallas) , there were 'gang' shooting but I can't remember a case then where 'civilians' where targeted other than by white racists as the typical "No Dogs, Negros, or Mexicans" storefront signs let you know where not to stay.

The gang war in LA seems to have escalated beyond simple rivalry into true hate-crime Ethnic Cleansing where innocent people are attacked simply because of race.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/19/local/la-me-azusa-hate-20110619

 

[Evo]

I also grew up in Texas in the 1960's (family in Houston, Waco and Dallas) , there were 'gang' shooting but I can't remember a case then where 'civilians' where targeted other than by white racists as the typical "No Dogs, Negros, or Mexicans" storefront signs let you know where not to stay.

Never saw that in Houston. The only violent racial tension back then I was aware of was between blacks and mexicans.

Sure, back before the civil rights movement, I remember "whites only" water fountains at the Woolworth store downtown.

But I was raised to respect all people as equal. Except ignorant, violent people, of course. But race, skin color, religion, no difference. Also, I was taught that I should show respect for people that were unjustly discriminated against.

 

[nsaspook]

I don't think I'd call this a "race war," when it's more of a "bigoted gang" issue. If you're going to start calling it a "race war," you'll need to show some evidence that a large portion of a race is involved, and not just a comparatively small violent gang. I mean, if there's a "race war," the African Americans, Latinos, Caucasians, and Asians I see playing Magic: The Gathering with one another don't show it.

Call it anything you want but people that have nothing to do with gangs are being forcefully removed from living in areas of LA. I'm guessing the KKK could have be classified as a "bigoted gang" issue in the civil-rights era south.

 

[Jack21222]

Call it anything you want but people that have nothing to do with gangs are being forcefully removed from living in areas of LA. I'm guessing the KKK could have be classified as a "bigoted gang" issue in the civil-rights era south.

Yes, and I certainly wouldn't have called it a race war, even though that situation was probably closer to a race war than currently in LA.

 

[Skrew]

Race relations since the 50s up until now have largely consisted of nonwhite populations demanding things and the white population largely saying "ok", this has resulted in relative peace.

Since the white population is no longer the majority in many areas these groups have focused their efforts on each other since the previous dominate group no longer exists.

I also think at least part of these problems stem from the "diversity is strength" mantra. You cannot put two groups who dislike each other into the same area and believe the outcome will be good for both groups.

It will be interesting to watch.

 

[cryora]

That sucks. I personally know a black guy who has a home in Compton (he's currently away from home right now). He always strikes me as a decent guy, but it seems everyone who has socialized with him almost unanimously agree that he is kind of weird - not very sociable, doesn't smile very often except when he talks to himself (which is kind of freaky). I wonder if it has to do with the where he lived.

I personally went to a high school in LA that was like 87% Hispanic, and it was not cool being a minority (Asian) there. I would hear racial innuendos all the time. One time I saw this kid take pieces of his bread and toss it at unsuspecting Asians. I know cause I got hit and I stared at him for the longest time and he didn't even notice. There was this other time I ended up being in the middle of a "shove circle" where I'm in the center, being shoved at from all sides. Cause it was the end of lunch, and I was leaving for class, but it was crowded, so I just happened to stop and notice an attractive, scantily clad female, but apparently this guy - who might have been her boyfriend, or trying to be - got angry and pushed me, and then bumped into someone behind me, who stopped my motion, so I tried to play it off and was like "woops" but the guy behind me then pushed me, and before I knew it, I was surrounded. I was shoved all around for sometime, until I eventually got tired and fell down. There were many concerned onlookers, but only a few actually spoke up. No one came to help me out or stand up for me. It didn't seem like any teachers were present.. maybe they fled, I don't know lol. I became really pissed off from then on, and went into state of depression, but eventually transferred to a school in a wealthier community that was more diverse. Didn't have any serious racial problems there, though people still mostly hung around others of like ethnicity. This was like in 2006.

But I'm not trying to spin Latinos in a negative light. I've known a lot of good people who are Latinos. It's the gang culture that forces a certain outlook on people. It's like showing someone a new belief system. In middle school, I knew a Peruvian guy who was good at math, spoke with a normal accent, and didn't seem like gangster material at all. But later in life, I get a call from him and he sounded a lot like a gangbanger. I eventually find out that for a time he got involved with gangs. He tried to spread his way of thinking on me, like preaching propaganda, but of course it didn't work. It's amazing how different a person can be changed.

 

[Alfi]

There was this other time I ended up being in the middle of a "shove circle" where I'm in the center, being shoved at from all sides. Cause it was the end of lunch, and I was leaving for class, but it was crowded, so I just happened to stop and notice an attractive, scantily clad female, but apparently this guy - who might have been her boyfriend, or trying to be - got angry and pushed me, and then bumped into someone behind me, who stopped my motion, so I tried to play it off and was like "woops" but the guy behind me then pushed me, and before I knew it, I was surrounded. I was shoved all around for sometime, until I eventually got tired and fell down.

Scary. Sorry it happened to you cryora. You're not the only one.
I know I am not comfortable any more in any crowd of anyone ethnic group, even if I am one of them. The USA! USA! USA! chant will scare me when I hear it.
These days, I just avoid any large gatherings of any kind. I only see them as a potential mob.
Similar situation happened, I think they call it a 'swarm' these days, at a subway station.
Suddenly surrounded! Reminded me of wolves or jackals on a kill.

I don't think it's a race war thing. A group thing was my first thought.
( ok ... in reality ... 'damn you f'ing a-holes' ) was my first thought...

Race war, possible
Group dynamic, possible

unacceptable , definite.


so what can be done?

 

[jim hardy]

Scary. ...


so what can be done?

Sure wish i knew.


Watch your nature shows. Most large brained mammals are 'pack' or 'herd' oriented; territorial and xenophobic.
Primates, cats, canines, dolphins, elephants, horses ,,,, the females congregate and raise the young while the males carouse.

H G Wells said it in 'Dr Moreau' : "The beast keeps coming out".


To become different from what we are requires some awareness of what we are.
Last page of "Isle of dr Moreau" ; http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?pageno=90&fk_files=2591630

And even it seemed that I too was not a reasonable creature,
but only an animal tormented with some strange disorder in its
brain which sent it to wander alone, like a sheep stricken
with gid.

This is a mood, however, that comes to me now, I thank God,
more rarely. I have withdrawn myself from the confusion of cities
and multitudes, and spend my days surrounded by wise books,--bright
windows in this life of ours, lit by the shining souls of men.
I see few strangers, and have but a small household.
My days I devote to reading and to experiments in chemistry,
and I spend many of the clear nights in the study of astronomy.
There is--though I do not know how there is or why there is--a sense
of infinite peace and protection in the glittering hosts of heaven.
There it must be, I think, in the vast and eternal laws of matter,
and not in the daily cares and sins and troubles of men, that whatever
is more than animal within us must find its solace and its hope. I hope,
or I could not live.

And so, in hope and solitude, my story ends.

EDWARD PRENDICK. (bold mine - jh)

Sorry i don't know an answer to your question.
But it sounds like Wells might have enjoyed PF.

old jim

 

[Drakkith]

so what can be done?

The only solution I can even think of is simply for parents to raise their children in a manner that promotes acceptance of people regardless of race, status, or other similar things. But this requires parents who are already accepting of different people and it requires that they actually know how to instill such behavior in their children. So in all honesty I don't really see a solution.

 

[Mentalist]

How can parents effectively "raise" (I don't think those parents raise children, because the defining factor of 'raising' of the idea I am using is passing down values that will help the kid, not values that will be to its detriment) children if they weren't raised properly? If this has been occurring since the 60s like people have mentioned, then the 1 or 2 that are smart enough to see that such a life isn't worth it does not outweigh the 10-12 that see it as, "all I know."

I was watching this prison show and one of the inmates that had a son was being asked a question by the interviewer saying, "Wouldn't you be happy if your son became a surgeon?" and the inmate replied, "No. I would be happy if he was in a gang or followed along in my footsteps."(It's been a while since I saw it but I remember the context)

I was astounded of course by the reply because I never heard anything like it before. But to my original point, if parents expect their children to be, "of the criminal life," or have no real expectations for their children more-so because of ignorance, the cycle will continue to go around and around. So, while that is a seemingly good solution, I don't see it as feasible given the types of people being discussed in the thread. If (1) they aren't smart enough to want a better life for their kid, and (2) they have little expectations or knowledge of the world around them outside of their town, how can we just say, "better parenting will solve the problem."?

Such individuals do not know how to parent in the first place and from what I know, the schools aren't even average, rather below average in quality. The amount of distractions from students that don't really want to learn is great, thus fosters an atmosphere where it is hard to learn because more than likely not many good or effective teachers will want to teach at such a school or are afraid of their own livelihood.
Of course, the smarter students who evade bullies or being killed tend to move on to better heights, however, that will be the few, not the majority. The majority will just repeat the cycle of their parents more often.

I don't see how you can teach a parent how to be a better parent if the parent itself is young and comes from a background of little education. I don't see that as a solution to this problem.

The cycle of ignorance continues.

I do see a solution and it is based off of my own original solution (mightn ot be totally original but I thought of it whilst replying).

http://nation.foxnews.com/welfare-benefits/2013/01/27/tn-senator-s-bill-ties-welfare-benefits-children-s-school-performance

Since most in such areas tend to rely on government assistance it would be good to reduce the welfare if the students aren't doing well. But not only that, remove/expel (for good) students that are disruptive and only allow students that wish to learn and aren't disruptive in the school. We have tried most things and generally people think the ideas mentioned by the senator or the idea I have are rather wrong but I don't see such people offering anything that hasn't already been done. Can apply one or the other, or possibly both. But of course kids who are not allowed to go back to school because of constant disruptions should be sent to vocational schools where they can learn a certain trade.

 

[Alfi]

The only solution I can even think of is simply for parents to raise their children in a manner that promotes acceptance of people regardless of race, status, or other similar things. But this requires parents who are already accepting of different people and it requires that they actually know how to instill such behavior in their children. So in all honesty I don't really see a solution.

I think you hit the solution.

parents to raise their children in a manner that promotes acceptance of people regardless of race, status, or other similar things.

That sounds good to me.

I am one of those parents.

 

[boomtrain]

Another solution would be to give away free birth control to teenagers in poor neighborhoods. Maybe we can couple this program with free digital watches with programmed reminders for the females to take their birth control kids.

That way, all of the people with kids will have planned to have those kids, and are more likely to raise them properly.

 

[Drakkith]

Another solution would be to give away free birth control to teenagers in poor neighborhoods. Maybe we can couple this program with free digital watches with programmed reminders for the females to take their birth control kids.

That way, all of the people with kids will have planned to have those kids, and are more likely to raise them properly.

If only it were this easy.

 

[OmCheeto]

If only it were this easy.

Where on Earth are you from?

You defy all my stereotypes of military intelligence. :grumpy:

 

[phion]

You defy all my stereotypes of military intelligence. :grumpy:

Military intelligence? Is that like reading a bunch of topical news articles and making a best guess on Google maps?

 

[OmCheeto]

Military intelligence? Is that like reading a bunch of topical news articles and making a best guess on Google maps?

I don't even know what that means.

I think I may have been referring to his previous post:

The only solution I can even think of is simply for parents to raise their children in a manner that promotes acceptance of people regardless of race, status, or other similar things. But this requires parents who are already accepting of different people and it requires that they actually know how to instill such behavior in their children. So in all honesty I don't really see a solution.

This somewhat mirrors my solution:

This problem will not go away until the last child, of the last bigot, dies.

Sometimes, hearing someone say that they have no solution, is refreshing.
And reading that someone shares your philosophical views, even more so.

Kum ba yah... :tongue2:

Of course, my other solution, is to put them all to work.

And for whatever reason, the Kilkenny Cats come to mind.

There once were two cats of Kilkenny
Each thought there was one cat too many
So they fought and they fit
And they scratched and they bit
'Til (excepting their nails
And the tips of their tails)
Instead of two cats there weren't any!

Tom cats have no jobs, and therefore, have plenty of spare time to be rapists, thieves, and general rabble rousers.

Ha!
Los Angeles = City of Angels
Angels live in heaven
Angels wage war in heaven
Revelations 12:7

hmmm... I guess this was kind of prophesied.

 

[Drakkith]

Where on Earth are you from?

You defy all my stereotypes of military intelligence. :grumpy:

I'm from Texas originally. I never did intelligence however. Although I know it's far more difficult than most would make it out to be.

 

[phion]

I don't even know what that means.

My apologies, I didn't realize who you were directing the comment toward. Didn't mean to be an a-hole!

 

[OmCheeto]

I'm from Texas originally.

Texas? Well then, now you've defied two of my stereotypes. :tongue2:

I never did intelligence however. Although I know it's far more difficult than most would make it out to be.

I was referring more to the "Is military intelligence an oxymoron?" statement. I never viewed it as being directed at the "Intelligence" personnel, rather to all in the military.

And I blame much of my racial tolerance on having served in the military. I grew up in a pure white neighborhood, going to pure white schools. My views of black people were mostly negative, as my only knowledge of them came from watching TV.

The Watts Riots were occurring while I was 6 years old, and I'm sure I thought black people were mean and stupid for fighting and killing and setting things on fire.

Of course, the next few years only reinforced my stereotype:

Civil Rights and Black Power Movement's Period: 1955 - 1977

1965: Watts Riots (Watts neighborhood, Los Angeles, California)
1966: Division Street Riots (Humboldt Park neighborhood, Chicago, Illinois)
1966: Hough Riots (Hough community, Cleveland, Ohio)
1966: North Omaha, Nebraska (North Omaha community, Omaha, Nebraska)
Long Hot Summer of 1967
1967: Tampa Riots, (Tampa, Florida)
1967: Texas Southern University Riot (Houston, Texas)
1967: 1967 Detroit riot (Detroit, Michigan)
1967: Buffalo riot (Buffalo, New York)
1967: Milwaukee Riot (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)
1967: Minneapolis North Side Riots (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
1967: 1967 Newark riots (Newark, New Jersey)
1967: Plainfield riots (Plainfield, New Jersey)
Protests of 1968
1968: Orangeburg massacre (Orangeburg, South Carolina)
1968: Nationwide riots following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
1968: Baltimore riot of 1968 (Baltimore, Maryland)
1968: Chicago (April 1968) (Chicago, Illinois)
1968: Louisville riots of 1968 (Louisville, Kentucky)
1968: 1968 Washington, D.C. riots (Washington, D.C.)
1969: 1969 York Race Riot (York, Pennsylvania)

I don't really have any specific recollection of any of these events. And the Watt's Riots probably stuck out in my mind because my aunt lived in Los Angeles at the time.

But anyways, when I joined the Navy back in 1977, within weeks entering boot camp, I came to realize that people of color were not that different after all. The scariest person turned out to be a white guy, with arms that reached down to his knees, who claimed he had been given a choice of either joining the military, or going to prison.

The military was also where I came to the realization that I loved being surrounded by smart people. Nukes, in general, are very smart. But, I also got some of my first tastes of southern bigotry.

One day, a colored shipmate came to give the report of the status of the engineering spaces to the Reactor Operator, who happened to be from Biloxi Mississippi. He was a small man, and reminded me of a cartoon mouse I had once seen a picture of.

(googles: cartoon mouse with big head)

found him.

Anyways, I was sitting next to the Reactor Operator at the Electric Plant Control Panel, and overheard the status report. It sounded like any status report given by our white Mechanics.

So after the Mechanic left, Fievel, the big headed Biloxi mouse man, turns to me and says; "Ain't N*******s stoopid"

I looked at him, nodded politely, and unfortunately, developed a stereotype of southern whites.

 

[Drakkith]

Texas? Well then, now you've defied two of my stereotypes. :tongue2:

And I can't ride a horse nor do I wear a cowboy hat!

But anyways, it's unfortunate that there exists such...terrible ways of thinking with people, even in the military.

 

[OmCheeto]

And I can't ride a horse nor do I wear a cowboy hat!

So who is this guy then?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/582429_511810782172659_546419035_n.jpg​

Or was it Halloween? Or is that not a cowboy hat?
Evo once had to explain to me the difference between an evening gown and something else.
If it's more complicated than, this is a shoe, this is a shirt, these are pants, then I'll be lost.

ps. Apparently, I don't know what an evening gown is either. We'll have to start a new thread.

She was wearing a knee length dress. But her calling it an evening gown would be inline with being histrionic. A perfect example of the exaggeration and self importance in her writing, and possibly the much worse sin of fashion ignorance. (I don't expect men to know the difference)

bolding mine

Thank god. I thought I was going to have to go to "Clothing Tolerance and Awareness Training". :tongue:

But anyways, it's unfortunate that there exists such...terrible ways of thinking with people, even in the military.

Well, until they develop a drug test for bigotry, I'm afraid they will infiltrate, um, everything.

 

[Drakkith]

So who is this guy then?

We don't talk about that guy!

Or was it Halloween? Or is that not a cowboy hat?
Evo once had to explain to me the difference between an evening gown and something else.
If it's more complicated than, this is a shoe, this is a shirt, these are pants, then I'll be lost.

It was a new years party where we were supposed to dress up in 80's clothing. I had just driven to Arizona and back, so I didn't have anything. One of the guys there was dressed up as some rocker and had the hat, so I borrowed it for a while.

Well, until they develop a drug test for bigotry, I'm afraid they will infiltrate, um, everything.

Yep.