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The Real John McCain

  1. Sep 18, 2008 #1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

    If you thought John Kerry was bad with the flip flopping, McCain seems to be just on pace with Kerry.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 3, 2008 #2
    Are you saying Obama hasn't changed his mind on any issues...or even "modified" some of the things he's said...like "no pre-conditions" to meetings?
     
  4. Oct 4, 2008 #3
    It's to be expected of politicians.

    (I'm an independent, btw)
     
  5. Oct 4, 2008 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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    Obama hasn't changed on this. He rejects the notion that the goals of diplomacy must be met, i.e. preconditions, before the diplomacy begins, as Bush has required without success.

    Also, that video is mostly about McCain telling more lies or getting confused, not flip flops.
     
  6. Oct 4, 2008 #5
  7. Oct 4, 2008 #6
    I tend to agree...we seem to accept the politician who misrepresents the least.

    Just remember Obama and Biden NEVER said they didn't support domestic drilling for oil (something to the effect that - the price would just have to go to (European price levels) if necessary...then we'll use less...and be forced to find alternative energy sources****this is what made me dislike Obama btw), plus no coal, no nukes, etc.

    REMEMBER...Obama never said it...Obama never said it...Obama never said it...Obama never said it...
     
  8. Oct 4, 2008 #7

    russ_watters

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  9. Oct 4, 2008 #8

    russ_watters

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    Wrong....wrong...wrong...wrong....wrong.
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/01/obama-shifts-on-oil-drilling/

    In true Obama fashion, though, he keeps his positions soft so when he flip-flops he doesn't have far to go. He still doesn't support it - what he says is he'd accept it if forced to compromise.
    IMO, refusing to take a stand is worse than flip-flopping.
     
  10. Oct 4, 2008 #9
    I never said he wasn't a talented politician.
     
  11. Oct 4, 2008 #10

    russ_watters

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    ??? Certainly, he is, but I don't see what that has to do with your post. He was relatively clear that he did not support drilling. Now he is very unclear about support for drilling. His own position didn't have much room for hedge - his new one is all hedge.
     
  12. Oct 4, 2008 #11

    Moonbear

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    I agree, the only reason people can't catch Obama flip-flopping is that you actually have to TAKE a position before you can change it. Everything he says has just enough of a hedge-factor to make it meaningless.
     
  13. Oct 4, 2008 #12
    Then that's a strange choice of words. It was when he said he aspires to be, that carries a peculiar connotation beyond the twist you interpreted.

    English is my first language.
     
  14. Oct 4, 2008 #13
    Let me clarify...I was being facetious...Obama is an expert at saying something that has a very clear meaning to his intended audience...then does a 180 and explains it otherwise (when convenient). They call that "spin"...given his relationship with Hollywood and the mainstream media...it's not surprising.

    He's also good at preemptive comments...(he said he considered dabbling with drugs as a teen, raised by a single mother, "they'll" say he doesn't look like the other presidents, etc.)...truth is - Obama is the only one saying these things...made it sound as though someone was picking on him unfairly...and guess who spoon fed the comments to us.

    Now that is talent. I'm just not sure it's what we need in a President...not even press secretary.

    I deal with deceptive professional people everyday...it has become the norm. I expect clients to lie to me...I overcome their deceptions and negotiate. But my expectations of my coworkers are much different...if you lie to or manipulate a coworker...you're gone.

    I want to hold my leaders accountable to a higher standard. I expect my leader to be honest with me, to give it to me straight...say what he means and do what he says.

    This has long been the problem with Bush...regardless of any good things he's done...because of WMD's...nobody believes him anymore. We fully expect to be deceived by Iran, N. Korea, China, Russia, Cuba...not the President of the United States!

    If Obama can't be straight...he shouldn't expect to be elected.

    Obama says he wants positive change...but (I think) he's becoming more like (the perception of) Bush every day.
     
  15. Oct 4, 2008 #14

    LowlyPion

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    Actually the most amusing parallels seem to be with what Bush was saying in 2000 and what Palin is saying now. Placed side by side it's an uncanny echo - right out of the Rove play book. I think it was on the Daily show. (If I run across it, I'll post it here for your benefit.)

    I'm wondering if perhaps you've become so used to the Bush/Cheney/Rove years of deception and incompetence and Right Wing adventure that you've become unacquainted with what honest people actually sound like?
     
  16. Oct 4, 2008 #15
    McCain 08 is certainly no McCain 00, or even McCain 04. Without his political integrity, his bipartisanship reputation, and his honesty, McCain has nothing of value as a politician. He has no economic expertise, and a completely dead-wrong world-view on foreign policy. He has now surrounded himself with lobbyists and campaign strategists that he was famously against in the past.

    Problem with McCain right now is that he can't even dress up a lie. He would tell you he suspends his campaign because he "wants to fix the economy"; or Palin being the "best energy expert"; or Obama's tax policy would raise tax the middle class. etc. McCain is tainted by being within closed proximity to George Bush and his groupie. Above all else, bold-face lies is something that I can't stomach.

    McCain needs the support from religious base, and the backing from the lobbyists. He is willing use gambits to satisfy his ambition, to win the election at all cost. The Palin VP pick reveals that his only goal is to be elected, not to govern. However, I don't think it is completely up to him to become what he is today. He knows he cannot win running an honest campaign. And so it is, he becomes another victim to the two party system political theater of America.

    RIP, the true Maverick McCain.
     
  17. Oct 4, 2008 #16
    Let's assume WE are all being honest...or aren't we ready for THAT reality?

    I can't remember ever being this...disappointed...and pessimistic about the future.

    I don't know what everyone else is experiencing right now...but every deal I'm involved with has ground to an absolute halt. Everyone is taking a "wait and see" approach. Worst part...they're not even sure WHAT they're waiting for...and I've inquired.

    Even if everyone on this site is totally wrong about McCain...and he wins and proves himself honorable beyond a shadow of a doubt...Nancy Pelosi will ultimately stand in the way of any progress.

    If Obama wins...Nancy Pelosi will still be "a force to be (reconned) with" (I've always wanted to say that).

    Maybe I give her too much credit...but she presented herself in a full frontal position last week. She's a little too power hungry for me.
     
  18. Oct 4, 2008 #17

    LowlyPion

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    I actually voted for him in the primary, as I was more concerned about Romney being the nominee. I considered that McCain actually had some honor. I thought that he had been mistreated by the Rove politics of meanness in earlier campaigns and that he would be the safer choice, though I was not expecting to support the Republican in November regardless.

    I can see now that my assessment of McCain was mistaken. I think he has sold himself even like Mitt Romney in some Faustian pact with the Religious zealotry of self enrichment merely for the purpose of personal aggrandizement. I'd say he is at this point a ship without a rudder or a moral compass. Being blinded by ambition hardly translates into any change from the current status quo.
     
  19. Oct 4, 2008 #18

    LowlyPion

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    Whatever the Nation's ills they are not likely due to Pelosi. I haven't seen her do anything but be the target of the right wing attacks.

    If the current trends continue, I'm expecting that there will be a Democratic tsunami that will sweep the halls of congress clean of these pork-barrel, rebate and spend Republicans.
     
  20. Oct 4, 2008 #19
    The "Democratic Tsunami" is what I'm afraid of...and by the way...doesn't "rebate" mean you had to pay for something first...were (likely) over-charged...and then got your money back?

    When you take something that isn't yours (OUR money) and give it to your friends and supporters and people with their hands out that don't pay for anything (except with OUR money/OUR credit) that's called Democratic leadership.

    Right?
     
  21. Oct 4, 2008 #20

    LowlyPion

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    You're mistaken. The right of the Legislature to raise revenues through taxation for the common good is inherent in the Constitution
    This is the country you are a citizen of. This is the country you benefit from insofar as what you have learned or earned or has been passed to you by inheritance. To make the claim that the country has no rights to tax you flies in the face of the fundamental engine that was established when the country was founded. So I'm sure that can't be your claim.

    Drawing upon conjecture then to suppose that your money is going to anyone but the Government looks to be wildly speculative. If there are actual abuses, I have confidence that they will sort themselves out. But suggesting that Pelosi is handing out money like party favors to her friends, looks to me like idle speculation that you would employ in place of engaging Pelosi on her policies and actions.
     
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