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The Red Button

  1. Sep 25, 2004 #1
    You have infront of you, a red button
    All you have to do is press it
    What the button does is one of either
    Instantly kills all humans in the world, yourself included
    Or
    Instantly reverses time and takes humans out of ever existing.


    Do you press the button?
    -----------

    Personal opinion, i know no one will agree with it, and no im not just depressed guy

    Id press the button without thinking twice
    The bad people in this world out weigh the good
    And everyone in this world has killed. Wether it be another person or a fly.
    We have destroyed our planet, we have decimated it
    We destroy life for everything else, why should we get to ruin life for everything else.
    Not all are guilty, and deserve to die. But im sorry, id feel better letting everything else live, and humans dying, rather than letting everything die all together.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 25, 2004 #2
    In another thread, Belief and Knowing, we are at a point where we are discussing how beliefs filter our perception of reality. Soo........

    If you believe that most humans are flawed or bad, all you will see are flawed, bad humans. Your view is biased.

    Personally, I believe that it is healthier to accept the world and we humans as just being. We, objectively, are neither good or bad.

    Why push the button and end this beautiful experience??

    love&peace,
    olde drunk
     
  4. Sep 25, 2004 #3
    Isnt your view also biased?

    Why not push the button, and save life for every other living thing
    Do you believe we are more important...
    Sorry mate you just arent
     
  5. Sep 25, 2004 #4
    ABSOLUTE-LY!! all views of reality are biased.

    The trick is to understand why you are here. The better i understand my purpose the closer i get to being objective.

    as a gambling man, I be willing to bet that i have seen more of man's flaws than you. But, I have also allowed myself to see all the good. how sad it would be to deprive the world of the next Ghandi or Mohammed or Christ. Pushing the button might even deprive the world of your unique contribution.

    I am viewing my reality thru my belief that we are here for a purpose. Albeit, not salvation or social mission. rather, it is a personal purpose to understand self.

    You see reality thru your beliefs; we are polluting, causing wars, etc..
    You believe killing a sick patient is the best cure for illness. Would you want a doctor to prescribe death when all you would need is an antibiotic to cure your illness?

    there are illnesses in the world. I'd rather work on the cures than give up the search.

    love&peace,
    olde drunk
     
  6. Sep 25, 2004 #5
    Ive thought of you as an intelligent man, but how can you believe without any knowledge that you have seen more of mans flaws than me
    Also you have no idea about what my views on the world, im loving life... Man asumption is the truth greatest enemy, and you seem to be in bed with it

    You see reality thru your beliefs; we are polluting, causing wars, etc..
    You believe killing a sick patient is the best cure for illness. Would you want a doctor to prescribe death when all you would need is an antibiotic to cure your illness?

    What would you know about me? Top line yes, but i also see the good things, yet i stand by my answer
    I see all the good and all the evil, yet i still think this would be better for the universe.
    Second line, sorry man, you've just got no idea
    Last sentence, this is completely different, im talking All for one or one for all... eh!

    About Christ, Mohammed and Ghandi, why are these people so special to you... all they got was the right media coverage... Plus Christ has done more harm than good
     
  7. Sep 25, 2004 #6
    The wish that mankind ceased to exist
    Balancing 'good' versus 'bad'
    I don't agree. Firstly I don't think bad acts equilize good acts. One night of having good sex can make up a week without. It's a filter I use purposely. A sun rising can make me more happy, a biting dog less. I am using my own standards to balance 'good' and 'bad', in relation with something absolute it neglects the subjective character of morality. How many bad people do you know? How many good? How do you define bad people?

    What is 'good' or 'bad'?
    I could have been a Hugo Chavez, or a mother Theresa... I am definitely not in the position to judge others. Would I consider myself as 'bad' or as 'good'? A hamster killing his fellow mate in a small cage, is he 'bad'? Have you read Morris about the similarity of humans in our society and animals in zoos?

    Personally
    Personally, I wouldn't press the button. The better I understand the value of my subjective view I can prefer the value of my own life, my own decisions (probably you prefer to choose about this situation yourself too :smile:). I ceased to try to be objective. I don't think my life has a purpose except for me and the ones that surround me. If it serves something I don't know, it doesn't alter my sense of usefulness of my life. If something profits of my existence, let it be... :shy:
     
  8. Sep 25, 2004 #7

    Well think of it like this ive developed a system that is entirely fair, no ifs no buts, And the Bad out weighs the good.

    Also why does everyone insist that they are super special, they are here for a reason. Look i just dont believe it, if our universe is so vast and the entireity is unimaginable... then no i dont think that we are that special, we dont have a greater purpose.
    So if we have no greater purpose, and the bad does out weigh the good, then why not press that button, and let everything else live.
    The point isnt about killing humans, its about humans ruining life for all other life on earth, this is giving them a second chance, at the expense of a few billion life forms, WE KILL THAT MANY A DAY! NOT INCLUDING BACTERIA. I see myself no greater in purpose than a single celled organism, it deserves every right you do, and if you say it doesnt because it has no conciousness, then what about dolphins... eh! You recking life for them to
     
  9. Sep 25, 2004 #8
    Theres meant to be a w in the 'recking' :(
     
  10. Sep 25, 2004 #9
    hahaha
    very nice subject
    well, as far as i am concern
    i think you can never decide when u r sitting in front of your screen
    and just reading meanwhile you are having a cup of tea or analysing a theory or a math formula.. etc... (wether it's about pressing or not)
    i think u r talking about anachronism people
    you can not even imagine the situation.
    so if it truly exists and if you are truly meant to choose
    i guess that will be the right time to say, to act in your unconsciousness
    because in such things and such decisions your consciousness never works..
    did you get me?
     
  11. Sep 25, 2004 #10
    I wouldn't be special for myself?
    No not everyone is special, I am special and just for myself. Maybe there is a hidden reason for mine existence, like improving the world or whatever you think that is possible if we should get a second chance. Actually, what do you imagine as reason enough for us to exist? :rolleyes: Helping other species to survive? Saving the world, saving the universe? What kind of goal do you want?

    IMHO you are subjective and without hope
    Everything else that exist has purpose in regard to me. The bad does out weigh the good in your subjective point of view.
    Besides, I see increasing (IMHO) moral standards if I'm looking at for example the books of Moses, and think that there is hope for us in the feature.

    Second chance
    We are not the only killers on earth. Many animals do kill. Sorry, nature itself is build up such that it's about survival. Also the second chance rational life forms will be masters of survival. Okay if you can, tell a bacteria that it has the right to choose (that's where I build my moral system on). Why don't you blame nature for it? :confused: Why wouldn't you try to destroy the whole universe for being without reason? :devil:
     
  12. Sep 25, 2004 #11
    UNIVERSALISM says you should not because it not only makes you a very selfish indiviadual, but also your action which is both suicidal and genucidal robs the human race of value. Unversalism is the claim that an action is valueable or good if it benefits everyone. Universalists would argue that your action benefits neither you nor everyone else.

    UTILITARIANISM would condemn your action for a comepletely different reason. Although, untilitarianism does not completely rule out pressing that button, but nevertheless it would still condem it for some very calculated reasons. Trust me on this one, no sane human being ever desires applying utilitarian principles in their daily decision makings, but there comes on regular or rare occasions when moral dilemmas force people to resort to thinking and acting in utilitarian ways. In your button-pressing scenario, a utilitarian would only press that button if what results produces the highest good or happiness. In this very case, I don't think killing yourself and everyone else in the whole world fulfills the Utilitarian Principle of the Highest good.

    Admittedly, Universalism is currently difficult to achieve. At the moment, the standard debate between the universalists and the utilitarians is whether moral dilemmas are avoidable in the causal and relational structure of the world. The BIGGEST problem with moral dilemmas is that they turm human creatures into calculators. People automatically rationalise on what faces them daily, or what nature throws at them, and act accordingly to overcome it. My study shows that if at all there is anything bad about applying utilitarian calculus in our daily decision makings, then we are all guilty if this charge, because often we all do this, almost unconsciously, without realising that we are doing so. This is why my entire philosophy is aimed and directed at finding ways, by whatever means possible, for the human beings to physically progress from untilitarianism to universalism. At the moment I look at Utilitarianism as a very problematic but unavoidable pathway to universalism.

    NOTE: We are all wholly responsible for the INNER AND OUTWARD QUALITY of the people we choose to lead us and run our institutions, and this is one problem that we will carry in our conscience for a very long time to come, unless we start paying more attention to the human education that is fully supported and backed up with full scale scientific aim and action to re-engineer the human reality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2004
  13. Sep 25, 2004 #12
    You see all good and all evil! You must be a god! Therefore I'll press the button since you seem to think so, and I know you'll have mercy on my soul.

    About purpose, people seem to have their own purpose, (only personal not absolute) but do you think a paramecium has that same awareness of self worth? Even if not, that doesn't mean they don't have a right to live.

    Nature is very competitive for survival, but humanity clearly oversteps this boundary. We kill other life forms and sometimes entire species for convenience, luxury, etc. Humans are the only species not "playing fair" so they should be ejected from the game. The button needs to be pushed.

    I would spraypaint the button green and draw a dollar sign on it, and tell some sucker nearby that it's the free money button (just for liability purposes, I won't be the one to push it).
     
  14. Sep 25, 2004 #13
    False Prophet why get so angry and sly.....you sound as if you've had a bad day. Take it easy....calm down....take a deep breath. Instead of being so sly and engineering someone else to do your dirty work, just igonor the button and punch a tree on your back garden....actually not a tree.....I meant to say the fence wall on your back garden.....or on the back garden of anyone who has given you a bad day. For heavens' sake why take it out on the whole planet. You are not even a utilitarian, let alone, a universalist......pal, this really bothers me.

    Think Nature! May the 'Book of Nature' serve you well and bring you all that is good!
     
  15. Sep 25, 2004 #14
    No.

    What right do you have to press that button and destroy billions of lives? Where do you get the gall to believe that your reasoning powers are perfect, that you have a watertight argument to justify your position on this issue? Have you never plead ignorance? Do you know what it is to be humble? Even if I had a brain as astute and potent as a Wittgenstein or a Dirac, I would never rely on it to make such a weighty decision.

    Understand, I'm not attacking your argument, because I'm too dumb to analyse it properly. I'm attacking your breathtaking arrogance, your willingness to eliminate billions of people based on an argument you hatch up in your mind.
     
  16. Sep 25, 2004 #15
    Spot on, Cragwolf.
     
  17. Sep 25, 2004 #16
    A I

    Well yes obviously we cant actually know what we would do because we arent in the situation at the moment, but isnt that in all philosphy>
    ----------
    saviourmachine

    "We are not the only killers on earth. Many animals do kill."

    We also have the choice not to, yet we believe we are more important, and more deserving because we can do things like read and write. Point is, they kill without the concious thought of doing so, ive never seen any animal kill something unless in defense or for food or for an actual reason.
    We dont have to destroy the rain forest and the habitat of thousands of lives, but we do!
    ----------
    Philocrat

    We are robbing all other races of value
    ----------
    False Prophet

    Yeh ohk, im a god, i order you to get some intelligence
    ----------
    Cragwolf

    Thank you for actually answering the question
    But not to well backed up, what right do i have to destroy the lives of billions, as i said, we destroy the lives of billions everyday
     
  18. Sep 26, 2004 #17
    I think the real issue here, Kane, is that you have issues.

    Your obviously egotistical, which precludes intelligent discourse. You obviously have a pragmatic view on life. You obviously are not hear to get other's opinions on your ideas, unless they are in complete agreement with your own.

    Do you press the button?

    For you, non-existence may be the preferred choice, but I would just ask you to speak for yourself.

    For me, no I would not press the button, for when there is life, there is a chance, and for all the pain, loss, and evil I have experienced in my life I've also had a number of moments in which just one of them made it all worth it for me. Perhaps you need to search harder for such a moment for yourself.
     
  19. Sep 26, 2004 #18

    There are countless people who feel as you do and who are actually taking steps to kill just as many "bad guys" as they can. Some are even working on doomsday devices. If you are not depressed, then what is the point in telling us this?
     
  20. Sep 26, 2004 #19
    Deeviant, you are now added to the list of people that have no idea, and make to many asumptions about other people
    I didnt just pull this question out of now where, i read it in a book and i wanted to see what others would say, witht eh exception of 2 posts, people have just made attacks on me, and no i dont want to hear what those people say.
     
  21. Sep 26, 2004 #20
    Sorry Philocrat, KaneOris, and anyone else I offended. I couldn't find the neighbor's back garden wall, so I just punched the neighbor instead. I feel much better now.

    I'll still push the button, though. I suppose I can do my own dirty work, it won't make much difference. And those people trying to make doomsday devices are different, as they will probably blow up the world for all the creatures, not just the humans.

    Lord, have mercy on us all!
     
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