The truth owners

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  • #76
russ_watters
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the number 42 said:
Compared to what? We need an accurate yardstick here. To me, 'heavily to the left' implies communist. I don't suppose you are saying that PF funded by Moscow, are you? :biggrin:
There are several threads where people posted online political afiliation quiz results. Check one out. I don't think we have any Stalins, but we have plenty of Marxes.
Well perhaps seeing yourself as the last bastion of slightly right-wing views explains the vigour with which you defend your opinions.
No, I'm just stubborn, opinionated, and pedantic. But I also still think I'm more open-minded than average.
loseyourname said:
This is the last time he found out he was wrong - three days ago:...

Sorry, I don't wish to join in. I just thought that was funny. No one ever admits the possibility that they are wrong in the politics forum. It's hardly a problem unique to Russ.
That's actually something I pride myself on and I consider that to be evidence of open-mindedness. I've been commended professionally for admitting and correcting mistakes on a number of occasions. I once posted a "list your faults" thread and started it off by listing half a dozen of mine invited others to do the same. Instead of listing their own, most people just added more to mine! :rofl:

The inability to admit a fault is probably the most pervasive and destructive of human faults. It may be obvious in engineering, but I consider it crucial to just about everything people do: if you won't even admit your faults, you have no chance of ever correcting them. In engineering, if you don't admit (or worse, cover up) your mistakes, people can die: http://www.geneng.mtu.edu/eng1101/fall04/ethics/ethics.html [Broken]
 
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  • #77
russ_watters said:
This forum leans heavily to the left
russ_watters said:
There are several threads where people posted online political afiliation quiz results. Check one out. I don't think we have any Stalins, but we have plenty of Marxes.

Checked out a couple of threads:

1/ Where are you on the Political Compass?
I scored similarly Gandhi & the Dalai Lamha on the Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10
I personally don't feel I am as peace-loving as these guys, I like to think I have better dress sense, and I'm not sure how close our views on sex are (though I've heard Gandhi was a bit of a rogue). I'm not sure what I think of this test yet. I only scanned the blurb, but from a quick look at members' scores it seemed to bias scores a little to the left, which might be the result of not having a neutral mid-value (e.g. "don't know") for an option. I might take a closer look if I get time.

2/ Socialism
Nearly twice as of respondants said that Marxism couldn't work than said it could, so this certainly doesn't support the suggestion that PF is a hotbed of Chairman Mao impersonators. In fact if you go by the Political Compass, PF is more a hotbed of enlightened pacifist vegetarianism :confused:
 
  • #78
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:biggrin: One enlightened pacifist chimpanzee here (in terms of eating habit). Nice to meet you 42 :biggrin: . Gosh now that we are introduced, does that mean that I cannot be rude to you? :tongue2:
 
  • #79
Polly said:
Score: Economic Left/Right: -3.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.41.

I am a cross between the reverend Dalai Lama and Ghandi.

Polly said:
:biggrin: One enlightened pacifist chimpanzee here (in terms of eating habit). Nice to meet you 42 :biggrin: . Gosh now that we are introduced, does that mean that I cannot be rude to you? :tongue2:

Polly, lets just abandon our vows of celibacy and go about creating lots of little enlightened beings. During the act you can be as rude to me as you like :wink:
 
  • #80
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:biggrin: A bold offer like that begets only one thing, a bold acceptance :tongue2: Now be good and return to the thread.
 
  • #81
russ_watters
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the number 42 said:
I personally don't feel I am as peace-loving as these guys...
I'm glad to hear that because a lot of people on this site (in that thread) like to wear that as a badge of honor, but I don't see what is so great about being a Ghandi today. Its a good way to take down a government (and yeah, that is necessary every now and then), but it is not a way to create one. Plus, a lot of the people who tend to identify themselves with Ghandi (or King) aren't faithful to true pacifism: its militant pacifism that you see at a WTO protest, for example. It would be nice if there were more historical figures in that quadrant to gage what it means, but it may just be that there aren't because, its an impractical way to view the world - maybe that's why there aren't any real world leaders there. Which reminds me of Marxism...
2/ Socialism
Nearly twice as of respondants said that Marxism couldn't work than said it could, so this certainly doesn't support the suggestion that PF is a hotbed of Chairman Mao impersonators.
Well, Mao is a Stalin twin, not a Marx twin. If I were to guess, I'd say Marx would be far left, slightly below center. Regarding the poll I posted, maybe I need a follow-up: while people realize that pure Marxism doesn't work, there still seems to be some sort of nostalgia for it and, at the very least, a move toward implimenting as many of the policies that do work (arguably) as possible.
In fact if you go by the Political Compass, PF is more a hotbed of enlightened pacifist vegetarianism
I prefer "militant pacifists" (yes, I know its a contradiction, but its an accurate characterization of the movement), or perhaps, "neo-hippie", but that's my general feeling as well.

In any case, though its fine to consider the bottom-left corner the most "enlightened," its also the most impractical and even self-contradictory. The biggest flaw in Marxism is that its impractical - it does sound great on paper though.
 
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  • #82
russ_watters said:
In any case, though its fine to consider the bottom-left corner the most "enlightened," its also the most impractical and even self-contradictory.

Well Russ, people say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. By the way, the 'enlightened' remark was a reference to the spiritual enlightenment of my Political Compass quadrant neighbours (Messrs Lama and Gandhi, and the beautiful Polly) not to political enlightenment.
 
  • #83
Polly said:
:biggrin: A bold offer like that begets only one thing, a bold acceptance :tongue2: Now be good and return to the thread.

Shucks, miss Polly. I'm dustin' off mah webcam and puttin' on mah cleanest underpants right now. :blushing:
 
  • #84
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:eek: 42, I wish I had something witty to say but I am too dazed. :biggrin:
 
  • #85
Wait till you turn on your webcam :surprised :biggrin:
 
  • #86
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o:) We have to stop this nonsense, this thread can get closed you know. So bye for now. :wink:
 
  • #87
Polly said:
o:) We have to stop this nonsense, this thread can get closed you know. So bye for now. :wink:

i.e. "Help! I'm being stalked by the number 42! He's going to appear on my TV screen in his underpants while I'm watching the news!!" :biggrin:
Don't worry, we can get back to the thread now, though I think I've forgotten what its supposed to be about.
 
  • #88
Oh yeah, the truth owners. Nobody is ever going to agree on this one, as people by and large will believe the version of the truth that suits them. I say the BBC are a reliable source of truth (except for all the news that is left out, which is a big caveat), but then again they promote my radical-vegetarianist view of this illusory existence we call life.
 
  • #89
russ_watters
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the number 42 said:
... people by and large will believe the version of the truth that suits them.
So, you're saying, the media doesn't brainwash us? :biggrin:
Nobody is ever going to agree on this one
I disagree - I think we just agreed! :tongue2:
 
  • #90
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the number 42 said:
i.e. "Help! I'm being stalked by the number 42! He's going to appear on my TV screen in his underpants while I'm watching the news!!" :biggrin:

That is so untrue. The sub-text actually reads "let it be generally known that I am ardently in love with 42 and will attend to his every whim with my Oriental meek and submissiveness" *small kisses on 42's cheek*. Oh and also "beat that" :biggrin:

Now turning to the thread, ownership doesn't even have to come to the picture. Everybody just KNOWS what to do, don't we? We know where our investment is, who controls the examination and approval procedures and who can give us a hard time if we don't yield and comply. Here in Hong Kong, we don't get to see any report of the dark side of the PRC until and unless it is first reported in a PRC media.
 
  • #91
Polly said:
That is so untrue. The sub-text actually reads "let it be generally known that I am ardently in love with 42 and will attend to his every whim with my Oriental meek and submissiveness" *small kisses on 42's cheek*. Oh and also "beat that" :biggrin:

Wow, that's so nice of you to say those things. (i.e. "Help! I'm being stalked by Polly ! She's going to appear on my TV screen in her underpants while I'm watching the news!!")

Polly said:
Now turning to the thread, ownership doesn't even have to come to the picture. Everybody just KNOWS what to do, don't we? We know where our investment is, who controls the examination and approval procedures and who can give us a hard time if we don't yield and comply. Here in Hong Kong, we don't get to see any report of the dark side of the PRC until and unless it is first reported in a PRC media.

Yah-dee-yah. What colour did you say your underpants are?
 
  • #92
russ_watters said:
So, you're saying, the media doesn't brainwash us? :biggrin: I disagree - I think we just agreed! :tongue2:

Russ dammit. How dare you twist my words so much that I appear to agree with you :biggrin:

Actually, you make a good point. My answer is that the media set out to create our opinions. Now this might sound to those not in the know like Houdini-like bit of wriggling, but check this:

"Sigmund Freud's daughter, Anna, and his nephew, Edward Bernays, provided the centrepiece philosophy. The US government, big business, and the CIA used their ideas to develop techniques to manage and control the minds of the American people. But this was not a cynical exercise in manipulation. Those in power believed that the only way to make democracy work and create a stable society was to repress the savage barbarism that lurked just under the surface of normal American life".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self_episode_2.shtml [Broken]

Naturally I'll be disappointed (though not surprised) if your response is to doubt the source, it being the BBC. The series is directed by Adam Curtis, a very well respected documentary maker. You will probably say he is a wild-eyed red :rolleyes:
 
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  • #93
selfAdjoint
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I personally doubt the source, not the BBC, but that the Freud-Bernays psychology would acieve anything when deployed that way. This was the thesis behind Vance Packard's old book The Hidden Persuaders and that was subsequently shown to be incorrect; people are not in fact swayed by such things.
 
  • #94
russ_watters
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the number 42 said:
Naturally I'll be disappointed (though not surprised) if your response is to doubt the source, it being the BBC.
I don't know why you would say such a thing: I hold the BBC in pretty high regard.

Regarding the theory itself, I don't know much about it, but I don't doubt that in the time of McCarthy, such a thing was considered or even tried. But like SA, I would doubt that such a thing would work.
 
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  • #95
russ_watters said:
I don't know why you would say such a thing: I hold the BBC in pretty high regard.

:surprised You like the BBC, so... we agree AGAIN? :uhh: I feel funny...

russ_watters said:
Regarding the theory itself, I don't know much about it, but I don't doubt hat in the time of McCarthy, such a thing was considered or even tried. But like SA, I would doubt that such a thing would work.

You might be right, but it would be great if you could see the series (4 one-hour documentarys I think) so you could make up your mind one way or the other.
 
  • #96
selfAdjoint said:
I personally doubt the source, not the BBC, but that the Freud-Bernays psychology would acieve anything when deployed that way. This was the thesis behind Vance Packard's old book The Hidden Persuaders and that was subsequently shown to be incorrect; people are not in fact swayed by such things.

I see the connection, but even if the Hidden Persuaders is wrong it doesn't follow that the Century of the Self is similarly wrong. Would you remind me of what the criticisms of the Hidden Persuaders are, or give a link to same?
 
  • #97
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russ_watters said:
I disagree - I think we just agreed! :tongue2:
Unbelievable. First me, now 42... the whole forum is slowly beginning to agree with Russ, THIS MADNESS MUST BE STOPPED
 
  • #98
Smurf said:
Unbelievable. First me, now 42... the whole forum is slowly beginning to agree with Russ, THIS MADNESS MUST BE STOPPED

I think this is one for Skepticism & Debunking, Smurf. :biggrin: e.g 'Russ Watters is a right wing conspriracy, and actually an conglomerate of shape-shifting B-movie actors' etc.

Anyway, I think you'll find that Russ was agreeing with me :tongue2:
 
  • #99
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the number 42 said:
Anyway, I think you'll find that Russ was agreeing with me :tongue2:
THANK GOD! :smile:
phew.

Close one
 
  • #100
jammieg
USA today cracks down on Bush's "campaign of propaganda"

Here is a story in USA Today by Greg Toppo about government manipulation of the populace:
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050107/1a_bottomstrip07dom.art.htm [Broken]

I'm not sure exactly how it works but basically people tend to follow sound reasons on issues and a person can sometimes make a good living on having a reputation as an uncorruptable source of truth, but everyone's got a sellout point I suppose, and if USA Today has only detected the Bush administration attempting to manipulate the public in a few things what about all the things they haven't seen them do, there are probably a lot more of those? Anyway it's all lies for the greater good right? Do you think it's right to accept money from government for telling others about this "something you believe in" sort of thing if you were the journalist?
At first I thought it's like a prize fighter taking a dive because they both decide that money is more important than doing what they love to do.
 
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