# The Truth

1. Feb 19, 2004

### logastro

"When the solution is simple, God is answering."
Eistein
Gravity is sound reflection
electromagnetic waves are merely heat or light waves effected by sound, Gravity is a low low low frequency wave -one wavelength long
which reaches its earthing target at almost right angles
If any theory relating all energy exist this is it
Energy is one Spectrum

2. Feb 19, 2004

### Arbalest

what??? sound = gravity???? how so???

i was under the impression sound cant travel thru space???

cant anyone prove him right or wrong???

cause sounds like he saying that the sun is just a massive sub woofer producing extremly low frequency signals but if this is the case then doesn't that mean sound can travel thru space??

actually the more i think about it could be sorta like static electricity a mass build up on energy and once it has enuff it can jump from point to point??? but still i dont know??? its sounds good but anyone else know a different angle??

3. Feb 20, 2004

### Staff: Mentor

Logastro, your ideas are waaaaay wrong. You need to start at the beginning and learn some basic physics.

4. Feb 20, 2004

### Arbalest

Russ Dude... you cant just come out and say that to someone fair enuff he may be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay wrong as you put it but in the general rule of science nothing is wrong till proven wrong how you know he soooooooooooo wrong anyway??? you aint one of those scientists that dont wanna open up to new ideas and ways of thinking are you... if you know he is soooooooooooooooo wrong explain why.... im curious to his theory and would like better feed back than just saying your wrong. prove him wrong thats what science is all about

5. Feb 20, 2004

### Staff: Mentor

That is precisely backwards, Arbalest. In science, when you make a claim (hypothesis/theory), it is up to you to prove it. You don't just drop it on the scientific community and say "prove me wrong."
Quite frankly, its tough to know where to begin, his post made so little sense. He's so wrong, he's "not even wrong." You had a good start when you pointed out sound doesn't travel through a vacuum.

6. Feb 20, 2004

### Arbalest

well dude i dont know where to start first you come in say he soooo wrong then you say i got it wrong well if your so smart and know we are so wrong then tells us why?? cause frankly i belive his theory to be a possiblity.... why is so hard to belive that the sun produces sound???? and that in turn is gravity???

7. Feb 20, 2004

### logastro

Man just telling you the truth
im a musician , i dont have time to waste on physics

you can believe what you want ,BUT this is the truth
THIS THE TRUTH

"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Eistein

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." Eistein

"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality." Eistein

8. Feb 20, 2004

### logastro

Missing Piece Theory

Could it be that we have simply over-looked the simplicity of everything that should be. That the "Geniuses" that have come before, have steered us wrong, or merely over-complicated the basicness of our existence and in doing so turned what should be everyday knowledge into physics .

Phyics is the word we use to descibe something a lot more simple than it is when it is explained

Before you ever look at world in a mathmatical , calculation -I have to understand whats going on here kinda way , I adive you to take that step back and look at the beauty , bathe in the awesomeness that is , the fact that you don't have to know how everything works , but simply know that it does if fact work , are we not alive and ........ ........ , still alive.

Gravity will always be gravity

The way we explain it will not change its effect but more importantly change us , we must all come to the understanding that everything we believe or more importantly everything we think we know , has been taught, most of us have just soaked up information , it was there in front of you and sometimes there may have been no choice , sometimes you had to sit down and absorb all this "stuff". Ingesting and never really digesting , or swallowing whole and never chewing over or tasting. We must all weigh up the things we take in , question everything and then come to a stronger conclusion, be it of gravity , or astrophysics or something bigger like a God , or all the small things in ones life , the things that matter - the important things.

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Einstein
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Einstein

All I'd really like to do is present you with what I believe its the most logical and most beautiful angle to look at the big picture , maybe the biggest picture , the solar system or maybe the whole universe. Up untill now it all seemed so sterile, too much work to understand, cunjuring images of labcoats filled with greybearded scientist working out equations to solve problems to irrelevance.

Aaaaaaaany way as I was sitting just behind the right shoulder of the sun looking across its domain, the simplicity struck me
Energy Release Is One Spectrum
Refracted into three perceivable forms

In most chemical reactions involving combustion , energy is given off as Heat, Light and Sound . And if any theory trying to relate every thing "energy" under and above the sun , certainly it should include the sun also , so I guess what Im trying to say is , is that there has to be some sound energy released from the sun , and there is , I believe.

My theory is that this sound energy released from the sun is of such a magnitude and at such a low freqency that it is the force that keeps the earth in obit , as we are not being pulled closer to the sun Earth is actually storing the energy and is releasing it on us and the moon , and the moon back to our tides , this is how gravity works I believe
Between these low frequency waves (Gravity) and extremely high frequency heat waves I believe is this spectrum of energy which is kinda squeezed through almost pushed , this the area between the two waves - this explains Eisteins 'C squared' part of his un-explainable equation which has only proved it's self right over and over again

"When the solution is simple, God is answering." Einstein

This energy spectrum i preach is similar to the heat and light spectrum we have now except they do not include sound. With half good reason , they (phyicists) are under the impression that heat and light are electromagnetic driven waves ,while I'm saying this electromagnetism is actually the sound wave interfereance , in short summary they aren't separate at all ,in fact the sound is impossible to divide from light and heat waves.

These three forms of energy , heat , light , and sound are perceive through touch, sight , and sound by the mind as totally different "things" , when maybe they are just painting different pictures of the same vibration .
Surely there is some connection between musical scales and colour co-ordination , notes which sound pleasing to the ear are simply equidistance apart in frequency as are colour which go well together. Maybe Octaves in musical notes are similar to the colours of the rainbow , Red , Orange , Yellow, Green , Blue , Indigo, Violet .

9. Feb 21, 2004

### Staff: Mentor

You already gave the answer: there is no sound in space. Sound is a pressure wave that happens inside matter. It cannot travel in space and it only travels at the speed of sound (which is different for every medium). That's a simple flaw and a dealbreaker.

And please do not call logastro's ideas a "theory." They are not a theory. By definition, a theory is something that is testable and repeatable and strongly supported by experimental evidence. Logastro's ideas are undeveloped daydreams at best.

I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here. There really is only one thing you need to know to do a decent reality check on the ideas you see here: the scientific method. Learn that and your approach to this type of thing will be significantly more productive.
Before you do, you may want to take a step back, look at your idea, and ask yourself: does it fit with observations?

BTW, do you think I haven't noticed the improbable coincidence of two guys from Perth joining on the same day?

Last edited: Feb 21, 2004
10. Feb 21, 2004

### Deeviant

I am forced to agree with Russ.

Look at it this way, sound is just waves, just like the waves in the ocean. Attempt to create an analogy on how really big low frequency ocean waves can cause some sort of force even resembling gravity and get back to me. Oh yeah and once you DO do that, remind me that simplicity is beauty.

11. Feb 22, 2004

### franznietzsche

Um yeah....there isn't a scientist since newton's time that would find anything to concur with the idea that sound = gravity. Science is based un proof, but not upon reinventing the wheel.

And logastro, as you said it yourself, you don't have time to waste on physics. So don't waste our time. Stop quoting people out of context to support your unscientific method of creating platonic constructs that agree with your daydreams, but not with reality. Your quotes of einstein sound like something akin to an apartheid politician quoting the bible. Like i said your statements reflect platonic constructs that are forms with no connection to reality. If you don't have time to waste on physics and learning what evidence reality actually presents us with, don't waste our time.

12. Feb 23, 2004

### tanus5

I commend you for following your intuition. People with a closed mind and a limited view of the universe cannot see outside the box. While electromagnetic waves deplete over a distance they still exist, as can be proved simply by our technology to detect gamma and x rays given off by galaxies that are many light years away. Even if a sound wave were creative enough to pass through matter that had no ionization even the vibration of the neutral atoms would create some nearly un-detectable electromagnetic radiation waves which we know for a fact DO travel through space.

My proof of this is if you beat an object (edited what I wanted to say) against a wall at say 1000 cycles per minute heat would be released and that heat would be formed in correlation with the rate at which the object hit the wall.

Contradicting einsteins theory (E=MC2) is fairly fruitless considering it is the basis of most advanced physics, so stating that "sound"="energy" "gravity"="energy" and "sound"="gravity" is completely valid. There are many much more scientific was of explaining how the universe is simply waves manifested in different ways, but keeping it simple and in language you are familiar with is acceptable. For those that need a more scientific explanation because they can't understand simple language there is some great scientific information about it at http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Particle-Wave-Duality-Paradox.htm . While that does not explicitly explain its implications on gravity my theory is that a portion of the in wave gets converted to heat creating gravity (higher density of in waves than out waves).

Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
13. Feb 23, 2004

### Pergatory

I think that a lot of what logastro has said is well-grounded, and also commend him for his acceptance of his own creative mind which many people reject. However, I think all that he has said that is well-grounded is shared in common with the harmonics theory, and everything else he has said is basically nonsense. No offense logastro. As far as sound, as has already been pointed out, it can't travel through space. However, you have a good idea going, as far as everything sharing a common structure. If you go beyond your thinking of sound and simply consider it a wave, and state that all forms of energy are waves, then that's different from saying that all these things fall under the category of "sound." I recommend reading up on harmonics, logastro, I think you'd find it's incredibly similar to what you're describing. It also happens to be my current favored theory.

Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
14. Feb 23, 2004

### franznietzsche

Re: Re: the Truth

Screen doors on a submarine.

While you can correctly claim that sound waves posess energy, specifically kinetic energy of the oscillating molecules, however this is unrelated to gravity...sound itself is not energy either, it is a mental interpretation of variable pressure on our eardrums caused by oscillating air molecules. Still no connection to gravity.

As for harmonics theory, the idea may or may not be mathematically sound, i have not taken the effort to read into it and admit that all i know is what i've read here but, it is difficult to reconcile physically. This does not mean it is wrong, but it does mean that it will take a serious body of experimental evidence to convince any skeptics.

Claiming that all things are waves is not by any means a new concept, just ask de Broglie. However his waves are of the quantum mechanical nature, not harmonic theory, and to the best of my knowledge, are much much better supported by experimentation.

As for your "proof" the heat produced does not necessarily have any causal relationship to the production of the sound made when hitting a wall with an object. Work is done moving the object, giving the object increased kinetic energy, when the object collides with the wall this kinetic energy must go somewhere, some becomes heat, transferring molecular kinetic energy to the environment, some becomes sound in the form of large scale oscillations, the two energy productions have the same cause, but do not cause each other.

Furthermore heat is not electromagnetic energy, it is molecular connetic energy. heated particles release electromagnetic energy, for example when an iron bar glows red, but the heat itself is not electromagnetic energy.

15. Feb 24, 2004

### FZ+

EM waves are due to the action of electrons.

Gravity is defined as a force. Force is not the same as energy, something known and mathematically defined since Newton.

Quoting Einstein does not make you Einstein... when will crackpots realise this?

Being open minded should not entail having your brains fall out.

16. Feb 24, 2004

### tanus5

First of all agreeing with Einstein is not the same as saying you are him. Your ignorance is flowing through your hostility which is a natural occurance when faced with a threat which intimidates you, not that I should intimidate you but your response shows that I have.

Secondly, Einsteins "discovery" of E=MC2 was an application to mathmatics of the concept of oneness which has long been a part of most spiritual traditions. Having both an awareness of physical science and occult science gives me a unique perspective when it comes to science. Occult teachings are that everything is made up of energy which can be manipulated remotely as has been proven scientificly by Dr Carl Zener, and supported as a scientific possibility by the Heisenberg principle.

Last edited: Feb 24, 2004
17. Feb 24, 2004

### Staff: Mentor

Spirituality and science do not belong in the same sentence (oops). Einstein's theory has nothing to do with sprituality and telekenisis has not been shown to be scientifically valid.

18. Feb 25, 2004

### franznietzsche

ok then....just because i have time to do this let's see what happens if that was true...

Assume that staement is correct. the waveform would then be:
$$f(x) =\phi$$
where $$\phi$$ is the amplitude of the waveform, namely in this case a straight line.

We take the fourier expansion:
$$f(x) = \sum_{n=0}^\infty a_ncos(nx)+b_nsin(nx)$$
For simplicity's sake we can assume $$b_n = 0$$ for all n, because $$f$$ being a straight line is an even function. The we get:
$$f(x) = \sum_{n=0}^\infty a_ncos(nx)$$
Now given that we are using a constant amplitude on all frequencies, $$a_n$$ never varies and so can removed from the summation as:
$$f(x) = a[\sum_{n=0}^\infty cos(nx)]$$
This sum clearly diverges, as $$cos(nx)$$ is a constant that does not approach zero as $$n$$ approaches zero. thus we get:
$$f(x) = \infty$$
Which is impossible, because our waveform would have infinite energy.

Ergo, you are wrong. I could be more thorough and go through the fourier integral as well, which would go across noninteger frequencies but the result is the same, it diverges.

Umm...yeah. Given your extreme giftedness with mathematics i'll asuume you understood my above proof. Thus i also assume you now realize the consequential impossiblity of your above statement....maybe i should stop assuming people to be rational though...

Yeah well the occult didn't help Hitler win the battle of Britain, and it won't help you look less incompetent. The heisenberg principle has no relevance to the concept of all things being energy. The idea of all things being composed of energy isn't exactly a new idea, and certainly doesn't support your theory than it supports the theory that I am Superman.

I know you are but what am I!

Anyway enough of my satire...now its someone else's turn.

19. Feb 25, 2004

### chroot

Staff Emeritus
And I'm pretty sure that many physicists make lousy musicians in turn...

- Warren

20. Feb 25, 2004

### UltraPi1

I would say this sound theory is about as strong as string theory. These two theories should make for some wonderful music.