The US military role in Iraq has officially ended

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
174

Main Question or Discussion Point

... In a makeshift parade ground in a corner of Baghdad airport, time was called on the war just after 1pm on Thursday, eight years, eight months and 26 days after its far more dramatic opening in March 2003. Nearby a plane was waiting to take home the US high command. And in southern Iraq, the 4,000 US troops who remain were steadily streaming towards Kuwait.

By Sunday all the troops will be gone, called home for Christmas by an administration that decided there was little point sticking to the original end date of 31 December....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/us-exit-iraq-withdrawal-ambivalence?newsfeed=true

For the US, IIRC, ~4500 dead, 30,000 injured, 1.5 million have served with perhaps 810,000 suffering from PTSD, and about $1 trillion in financial costs.

When the war started, I had been traveling extensively and needed a long break. I got home just in time to watch the invasion on TV. Not long after we took the palace, I joined PF.
 
Last edited:

Answers and Replies

  • #2
Ryan_m_b
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
5,839
707
Not to mention somewhere between 100,000 and 1,000,000 dead Iraqi citizens.
 
  • #3
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
45
Not to mention somewhere between 100,000 and 1,000,000 dead Iraqi citizens.
And how many refugees that were driven to other countries due to religious differences?
 
  • #4
Pengwuino
Gold Member
4,989
15
Not to mention somewhere between 100,000 and 1,000,000 dead Iraqi citizens.
Link? I heard estimates a year ago saying such claims were wildly exaggerated and the WHO puts the estimate near 25k. I need to look for that study.

Edit: Nevermind, found a linking putting it around 250k "violent deaths" since 2003.
 
  • #5
Ryan_m_b
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
5,839
707
And how many refugees that were driven to other countries due to religious differences?
I gather that there are several million Iraqi refugees worldwide.
Link? I heard estimates a year ago saying such claims were wildly exaggerated and the WHO puts the estimate near 25k. I need to look for that study.
The IBC lists roughly 100,000 and there are various other sources such as the lancet that suggest body counts of hundreds of thousands more, some estimating up to near 1,000,000.

I'm not vouching for the validity of any of these claims specifically, just pointing out that they are there.
 
  • #6
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
174
Link? I heard estimates a year ago saying such claims were wildly exaggerated and the WHO puts the estimate near 25k. I need to look for that study.

Edit: Nevermind, found a linking putting it around 250k "violent deaths" since 2003.
I know you were talking about citizens, but in regards to Iraqi sodiers, during the invasion I got up every morning at 4AM to watch the Pentagon briefing. At one point it appeared that we eliminated somewhere around 100,000 soldiers [perhaps twice as many] with a single wave of heavy bombs. When the announcment was made, the room fell dead silent. Even the brass looked shocked.
 
Last edited:
  • #7
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
174
DONALD RUMSFELD, Former U.S. Secretary of Defense: The Office of Management and Budget estimated it would be something under $50 billion.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, Anchor, "This Week": Outside estimates say up to $300 billion.

DONALD RUMSFELD: Baloney.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june08/warcost_03-26.html [Broken]

January 2, 2003

If President Bush orders an attack against Iraq, the American force would be half the size of that in the 1991 war. The Pentagon's war plans call for deploying as many as 250,000 military personnel, but the initial offensive should start with a much smaller number, with a sizable force in reserve.

The budget director's projections today served as a more politically palatable corrective to figures put forth by Mr. Lindsey in September, when he said that a war with Iraq might amount to 1 percent to 2 percent of the national gross domestic product, or $100 billion to $200 billion. Mr. Lindsey added that as a one-time cost for one year, the expenditure would be "nothing."

Mr. Lindsey was criticized inside and outside the administration for putting forth such a large number, which helped pave the way for his ouster earlier this month. He could not be reached for comment this evening. (Congressional Democrats have estimated that the cost would be $93 billion, not including the cost of peacekeeping and rebuilding efforts after a war.)...
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/2_whitehouse.html [Broken]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #8
918
16
We also enhanced Iran's influence in the country and the region.
 
  • #9
6,265
1,275
We also enhanced Iran's influence in the country and the region.
From Ivan's link:

The spectre of Iran stepping into an American vacuum gets regular play in non-government media and in Sunni areas of the country, which still feel collectively marginalised eight years after their power base was shattered.
I wonder if this is a serious possibility.
 
  • #10
6,265
1,275
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/us-exit-iraq-withdrawal-ambivalence?newsfeed=true

For the US, IIRC, ~4500 dead, 30,000 injured, 1.5 million have served with perhaps 810,000 suffering from PTSD, and about $1 trillion in financial costs.

When the war started, I had been traveling extensively and needed a long break. I got home just in time to watch the invasion on TV. Not long after we took the palace, I joined PF.
The story you linked to is titled:

"US exit from Iraq: 'this is not a withdrawal, this is an act on a stage'"

based on this quote:

Another man, Mundhar Kamel, 65, said the departure changed little. "This move is them exiting from one door and entering from another," he said. "In the embassy they still have 15,000 people and there is talk about 3,000 more [military] trainers. This is not a withdrawal, this is an act on a stage.
We have 15,000, what are they, embassy guards, that will remain?
 
  • #11
rhody
Gold Member
630
3
An observation, why isn't this thread in P&WA, unless putting it there would result in a thread lock in short order. :redface: :blushing:

Rhody...
 
  • #12
Bobbywhy
Gold Member
1,722
48
An observation, why isn't this thread in P&WA, unless putting it there would result in a thread lock in short order. :redface: :blushing:

Rhody...
From here this thread appears to be in the P&WA thread. For what reason would this thread be locked in short order? Guessing maybe I am totally naive and am missing the significance of :redface: and :blushing:?
 
  • #13
Evo
Mentor
23,106
2,458
From here this thread appears to be in the P&WA thread. For what reason would this thread be locked in short order? Guessing maybe I am totally naive and am missing the significance of :redface: and :blushing:?
The thread has just been moved to P&WA. Rules in P&WA are stricter than in GD.
 
  • #14
378
2
The thread has just been moved to P&WA. Rules in P&WA are stricter than in GD.
.. or people tend to be more fierce in P&WA :rofl:


The US military role in Iraq has officially ended
"The Bush administration deserves credit for its long-term commitment to democracy in the Middle East. But even a good idea can be spoiled by clumsy execution. Worse still, the idea can backfire -- particularly if people come to suspect that ulterior motives are at work."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/opinion/the-wrong-way-to-sell-democracy-to-the-arab-world.html

:rofl:
 
  • #15
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
174
An observation, why isn't this thread in P&WA, unless putting it there would result in a thread lock in short order. :redface: :blushing:

Rhody...
I didn't care to create a thread meeting the P&WA guidelines, which it didn't and doesn't.
 
Last edited:
  • #16
I got to watch the invasion on t.v in bootcamp! Also had a front row seat in the Gulf in 95 and 98.
 
  • #17
6,265
1,275
I got to watch the invasion on t.v in bootcamp! Also had a front row seat in the Gulf in 95 and 98.
I was glued to the TV during Gulf War #1. CNN's on the spot coverage completely changed the experience of war for people who weren't actually there. It was surreal.
 
  • #18
246
3
Please move the thread back to where discussion is allowed. I guess GD stands for general discussion.
 
  • #19
Ryan_m_b
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
5,839
707
Please move the thread back to where discussion is allowed. I guess D stands for general discussion.
I don't get what you mean here, all subforums allow discussions. This one is here for Politics and World Affairs. As such it is appropriate.
 
  • #20
246
3
The thread has just been moved to P&WA. Rules in P&WA are stricter than in GD.
As I said, please move it back to the place where the rules are less strict. You and Evo see this differently. You say equal rules she says not equal rules???
 
  • #21
246
3
Now at last Iraq can split into three separate countries. One for the Kurds, one for the Sunni, and one for the Shiites.

Of course, the question of who gets the water and who gets the oil are open for discussion amongst the locals.
 
Last edited:
  • #22
Ryan_m_b
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
5,839
707
As I said, please move it back to the place where the rules are less strict. You and Evo see this differently. You say equal rules she says not equal rules???
No I said:
all subforums allow discussions.
In response to:
Please move the thread back to where discussion is allowed.
The rules are there for a reason, if you want to discuss issues pertaining to politics and world affairs you must do it whilst complying with the P&WA rules. This is no different to how any topic is dealt with at the site. GD is not a subforum free from rules, it is a place for general (AKA casual) discussion.
 
  • #23
Evo
Mentor
23,106
2,458
Just like cosmology is not discussed in GD, P&WA topics aren't discussed in GD, GD is for humor, personal discussions, hobbies, etc...
 
  • #24
246
3
If I were advising Iraq I would tell them to keep oil production low so that it lasts for a long time. For their children and grandchildren. I believe some folks in Saudi Arabia have said they are not going to build out new oil production facilities for just this reason.
 
  • #25
mege
If I were advising Iraq I would tell them to keep oil production low so that it lasts for a long time. For their children and grandchildren. I believe some folks in Saudi Arabia have said they are not going to build out new oil production facilities for just this reason.
I'd be interested to see a quote on that. If KSA is slowing production, from my understanding, it's to keep the price higher (from supply being low) - not to outright conserve the oil.
 

Related Threads for: The US military role in Iraq has officially ended

Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
94
Views
8K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
3K
Replies
133
Views
9K
Top