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Theories of The Universe (and Reality)

  1. Jul 6, 2004 #1
    I find discussing the beginning and continuation of the universe one of the more interesting aspects of physics. Also the fact nobody really has any concrete proof as to much of where the universe is going, its boundaries, its expansion. Alot of people have their own ideas or beliefs, and i'd like to hear some of em. Any of you who have the time to share with me what you believe about our universe (or multiverse if you're that way inclined) it would be interesting. It can be complete conjecture (as some physics is...no offense) i dont mind. Feel free to throw in some reality related ideas, i find that our perceptions of reality and the basis of the universe go hand in hand. Philosophy Meets Astrophysics.

    Some points to get you started.

    Is the universe constantly expanding?
    If so, into what?
    If so, how fast?
    What is its shape?
    What is at the outer edge of the universe?
    Will (and How will) it end?
    Is there only one?
    Is this one of many realities? existences?
    and anything else you feel you can contribute.

    by the way my opinions will come into at some point, im just waiting for the ball to start rolling before i contribute.


    P.S. All you people who are older and feel superior to me, feel free to scream abuse at me and call me a n00b as i have seen in other threads, or you can just be quiet and post what you know/think
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 6, 2004 #2
    It's now official, the universe is absurd!

    It seems the implications of the big bang, accelerating universe, negative energy and mass, are virtually indistinguishable from those that have plagued the Quantum realm. Infinities and other absurdities are croping up in every theory, and each new astronomical headline contradicts the last.

    Oh joy!

    For a hundred years the absurdities of QM have ruled physics, now it seems they are destined to rule astronomy. What's next?
  4. Jul 7, 2004 #3
    at least now i know who to nominate for the "Mr Happy Chappy" award for my yearbook...
  5. Jul 7, 2004 #4
    first ask yourself; am i able to even ***IMAGINE*** the edge of the universe, alternate realities? *experience*, *understand* such? no, no? Well how can you or anybody anwser some of your questions?

    All we can imagine is that there IS edge of the universe. But there could be none as well.

    Do you think humans can improve themselves to be able to percive such things with their senses or understand them with their brain?

    now you know, why each new astronomical headline contradicts the last.
  6. Jul 8, 2004 #5
    At the edge of the universe is a posted sign that reads "I give up"- God.
  7. Jul 8, 2004 #6
    i could say the universe is a cube and lined with reduced fat rice crackers, and who's to say im wrong?

    i didnt mean to unleash everyone's inner scepticist, i was just hoping to read some theories and/or conjecture about wat people have assumed or imagined about the universe. everyone who has ever thought about the topic would have wandered about their mind looking for possibilities, and creates images in their head.

    sure, there's little concrete evidence, about anything, but people would still have created their own ideas and their own possibilities based on wat they know, their intertextuality. but people do have ideas... i just wanted to hear from those who had some.

  8. Jul 8, 2004 #7
    i know. but this is not scepticism, i think that the questions i presented in my previous post are really neccessary to be anwsered first before you can even think about theorizing about such things. that also applies to scientists and everyone else.

    My imagination is based on the world i can percieve, and the cosmos i can percieve.

    you can't imagine anything that you are not able to percieve either naturally thru your senses or with your brain or with the help of tools.

    and all that i am sceptical about is that the beyond of our universe or in alternate realities, especially the latter, i'd have absolutely nothing to do with my senses and my ability to comprehend my environment would be completely useless.

    thus, i can't even make theories about that.

    How can i even imagine beyond that. and if i can imagine it, that is probably not the end of the universe.
  9. Jul 10, 2004 #8
    Wu Li, is it possible that it is our theories that are absurd and not the universe? Maybe all of those infinities that keep showing up and have to be normalized are trying to tell us something.

    Maybe it is actually the symbol of the universal consciousness of the universe or what I refer to as God. In other words; "Okay this works if you allow for the conscious control, influence or intent of the universal consciousness, God, otherwise it is just an approximation, not really true and will fall apart when attempts of universal application are made."
  10. Jul 10, 2004 #9
    Yes, of course it is possible our theories are absurd rather than the universe itself. However, our theories are also part of the universe so it depends upon how you might care to interpret either. Words and concepts only have demonstrable meaning according to their function in a given context.

    My point is that our theories require a meta-theory, a philosophy, in order to make any sense whatsoever. Scientifically speaking, theories have no intrinsic meaning whatsoever, any more than formal logic has any meaning whatsoever. We supply the meaning if any. The theories themselves are nothing more than tools, essentially no different from my hammer and their uses depend entirely upon the specific context in which they are used, if at all.

    In the scientific community, the context in which theories are used is towards finding new and more useful explanations for phenomena. Ironically, in this century for the first time the scientific community has discovered that ultimately having no explanation whatsoever can be the most useful. :rofl:
  11. Jul 10, 2004 #10
    Yet another of your paradoxes and absurdities. Who knows there may be hope for the scientific community yet. IMHO reductionist materialism may be a useful tool at times; it is not universal and if wrongly applied will cause more confusion than illumination.
  12. Jul 15, 2004 #11
    What do you mean by constantly? Do you mean at a constant rate of motion? If so, do you mean motion through space or motion through space-time?

    There is no into what.

    This is an easy one. At the speed of light.

    Don't know.

    Maximum motion through space, minimum motion through time.

    Big Crunch.

    Yes, but it is cyclic.


    Sorry, but did you post your age somewhere so that we can know how to react to this one.
  13. Jul 16, 2004 #12
    Allow me to try and answer your questions point by point.

    1. Is the universe constantly expanding?

    Yes, and is actually accelerating.

    2. If so, into what?

    The contents of the universe will eventually rejoin the ocean of "dark matter" that helped to create it (Read Bottom).

    3. If so, how fast?

    Speed is relative. If you accept light as the determining factor, then it will be at the speed of light. Otherwise, matter goes as fast as matter goes.

    4. What is its shape?

    Spherical at first, then increasingly spikey as dense areas of dark matter act on different areas.

    5. What is at the outer edge of the universe?

    An ocean of dark matter. The edge of the universe (I think) would be similarly derived as a helioshpere. Where the boundry of a helioshere is where the winds from the star are no longer able to overcome the galactic winds in interstellar space. Similarly, the edge of the universe is where the gravity from the primeval black hole has no more affect at pulling in matter from the ocean of dark matter.

    6. Will (and How will) it end?

    The end of the universe will occur once its contents have rejoined the ocean of dark matter. By then, the universe itself, will have become dark matter.

    7. Is there only one?

    No. There are probably countless universes. Some at the beginning or end of their lives.

    8. Is this one of many realities? existences?

    Who knows. In my book (in progress) other galaxies are different quantum realities of this galaxy and vise-versa. It was meant to portray the saying that "anything that can happen, does happen".

    My Opinion:

    You guys are kinda close, but no cigar. You've limited yourselves to thinking the universe is everything. Take a step back and examine the facts. Ask yourself some important questions.

    1. Where did material (energy) for the universe come from?

    Nothingness? I think not.

    2. Why is there "Dark Matter" acting on the normal matter in the universe? (Some scientist say the universe may be 90% dark matter)

    "Dark Matter"? Sure, it's dark, and there's a lot of it. There's more than even the scientist think. It's not exotic or special in any way. However, it is very distant. In fact, it's outside of our (accelerating) expanding universe, and it may not be so dark. Our universe will someday see the light from "Dark Matter", since our unverse is nothing but a bubble in an ocean of "Dark Matter".
    Think about it. Outside of all universes exist an ocean of matter with both dense and sparse ripples like the sun shining into the ripples of a pool. The bright dense areas collapse rapidly (relative to the surrounding flow) to form the mother of all black holes.

    3. Why was there a "Big Bang"?

    Black holes don't explode, right? They just suck in surrounding material getting bigger and bigger. Imagine This. We exist on a material (matter) plane. What if there was an anti-material (antimatter) plane parallel to our own that we could not experience. That would mean that there must be some kind of barrier, correct? What could such a barrier be?
    "Zero Point Energy": When all other known sources of energy are removed (heat, radiation, charge, etc...), there's still energy present. I propose that this is the barrier between our opposing planes.
    The gravity well created by a black hole "pinches" the barrier bringing the matter and antimatter planes dangerously close to anihalation. I think this is what happened during the "Big Bang". All or most of the material in both planes were instantly converted to energy.
    So, there you have it, it's all history after that point. Eventually the universe will rejoin the ebb and flow of the ocean of dark matter beyond.
    Unfortunately, you'll have to read the book (science fiction) that I'm writing to find out things like the meaning of life and the universe. It will be called, "The War of the Gods"
  14. Jul 16, 2004 #13


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    This might be better suited to "theory development."
  15. Jul 18, 2004 #14
    I'm astonished by the confidence of all you people that such questions can be even anwsered. It brings a saying into my head; if there's 100 reasons against, and 1 reason for, humans will always against all odds cling to the 1 reason. it is called hope. and it's rather astonishing how powerful hope is. Perhaps, from such questions, we gain much more anwsers about ourselves, than about the edge of the universe.
  16. Jul 18, 2004 #15
    Evidently you have no sense of humor. Lighten up. :rofl:
  17. Jul 18, 2004 #16
    Maybe we should just stop trying...................Nah!
    What's the fun in that?

    Besides, you have to admit, the thought of something outside of our universe has to conjure up some pretty interesting images.
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