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Theory of the big bang and other universes

  1. Dec 18, 2003 #1
    I'm not sure if this has been theorized before by anyone but this is what I came up with as a theory as to how universes are formed and how "big bangs" occurr. I'm only in high school and haven't taken physics but I don't see how this can be ruled out all together.

    Basically this is about black holes and rips in the fabric of a universe. Here's a few (poorly drawn) images to explain this visually a bit:



    So in simple terms, when a black hole gets powerful enough, it rips a hole in the fabric of the universe and thus creates a new universe for it to throw all of the matter it's collected. What brings me to believe this may be a good theory is that I've heard from physicists that no theory man has thought up can explain how the big bang happened and my theory simply says all that happened when the universe was created is a bunch of matter from a much larger universe was sucked into ours by a black hole's gravity and the rip in the universe.

    One thing this DOESN'T explain is how the first particle of matter... the first electron or atom or whatever... was created and I don't intend it to. All this really explains is possibly how the big bang occurred and other universes.

    I'm also not exactly sure how a universe would "heal" it's rip or if it even would (this could mean multi-universal travel I suppose).

    So is my theory completely stupid or is there a possibility in there some where?
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 18, 2003 #2
    What you're suggesting is that universes are actually white holes. This could be possible, but I believe that there were some factors considered that made it unlikely. However, I think most of the work presented on white holes refered to their existance within our universe.
    Your theory has potential. It suggests that universes come from other universes that are incredibly large in comparison to the universe created. The gravity we could be detecting from black holes could be leaking as the only force that could through the rip they create. This could be considered a "worm hole" theory, but it doesn't seem to quite fit the worm hole model. Basically, the singularity would be the production unit, not a hole through the singularity. The question this brings up is that some black holes could have a continuous (Or long lasting at any rate) supply of matter to take in, so why isn't more being put into our universe every moment? Perhaps the initial energy of the black hole creates the matter and energy that will remain in the universe, and the rest of the energy could have some effect on the vacuum itself, which might have applications in the secrets of dark matter and dark energy.

    Basically... your theory is possible. It will be enteresting to see other responses.
  4. Dec 18, 2003 #3
    Thanks for your comment.

    You said "so why isn't more being put into our universe every moment?" and what I think that since our universe is expanding then maybe if there is indeed matter pooring into our universe from our "mother universe" and that matter is dark matter, I believe. Mr. Kaku talked about it before.... The energy of nothing. And that could be why the universe continues to expand... The vacume effect caused by our universe's lack of matter is what keeps us expanding.

    But you'd have to consider what is happening on our mother universe. It must be dying... Collapsing. If my theory is true, then I'd think the mother universe would be losing its size at a fast rate. But I suppose without knowing it's size (if it even exists), we can't judge what's happening to it.

    I orginally thought that there is no more matter pooring into our universe because I think my theory would have a law that seperates this giant, universe-creating effect and simple worm holes. A worm hole would be a rip in the fabric of space that links two points in a single universe and this major effect would actually create a universe. So a worm hole wouldn't do anything except transport matter and I don't think a black hole in another universe would create another rip in our own because the whole concept is to create a new universe. Plus we'd see it in the form of big bangs (small or large, I guess). So all in all, the new universe theory and worm holes are much different from what I'm trying to establish my theory.
  5. Dec 21, 2003 #4
    One thing. You say how this doesn't explain how the first particle was created. You're right, kind of. You would need more than a particle. If every daughter-universe is only the amount of matter being pulled through a black hole, then you would need one heck of a big universe to start with. After-all, the fraction of fractions of fractions of percents are entire universes, with each "parenting" their own fraction of fractions of fractions of percent universes. Other than that, you are right, it is very hard to disprove. Although, like you, I have had not physics or anything, I'm a freshman in HS. :smile:
  6. Dec 22, 2003 #5
    Yeah, I'm a freshman too, so I've had no real teaching in physics other than listening to Mr. Kaku on Coast to Coat AM about 3 times.

    But isn't there a way for atoms to clone themselves or something so that if given enough time, one atom could multiply long enough to create the first universe?

    I really can't explain how exactly the first universe could have successfuly been created an how it could get big enough to branch possibly trillions of other universes. And thinking of it a bit right now, there's a lot of work I have to do on this theory before I can work out all the bugs and paradoxes and such to make it work right.
  7. Dec 22, 2003 #6
    Well, if you consider the nature of time, then it might make sense. (Replication of atoms may be possible, but I can't quite recall something of the such that doesn't require energy or vacuum fluxuation.)

    Time is motion. Energy is the ability to cause change. For time to pass, there must be space and energy, and that's where we get an infinite source of energy for atoms and whatnaut. This energy would be pretty much without laws, pretty much able to do what ever. So1: what caused time to begin and2: What caused the infinite power to do what it did?
    But as for your theory, I see no reason that it wouldn't work. And how is it possible to measure the mass of black holes from our universe? Is this the gravity of the other universe being tunneled through the rip and we can thus detect it?
  8. Dec 22, 2003 #7
    I don't think we will be able to calculate or even measure the mass of black holes for a while. Even if they can be measured -- what methods would we go by? Everyone knows, or most people know that black holes have such a strong gravitational pull that no matter or energy can escape from it and if energy is the way to cause change I can't think of how it would measured from fluxuations.

    Any advice?
  9. Dec 22, 2003 #8


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    Planets, Stars and Black Holes can have their mass measured through the graviataional effext they have on bodies outside them. By working with the observed orbits of stars near a black hole, scientists can infer its mass.
  10. Dec 22, 2003 #9
    I doubt humans will ever find out exactly how time began and how exactly everything else began. Not to sound pessimistic, but I doubt humans will survive long enough to figures these things out. Perhaps if we reach a point where we can blow asteroids out of the sky with no problem and jump from planet to planet or even to a new solor system if something were to happen to our own or the sun then we'll have a chance. But considering how much we don't care about what's going above us and focus so much on other countries we want to bomb, it's hard to say with confidence that we'll see the day.

    But the entire question of how did it all begin is something I don't want to mess with because in my opinion, it's probably one God or another that did create us. As much as I want physics to explain everything so I can understand, I don't think it can or will.
  11. Dec 22, 2003 #10
    What if black holes can squeeze matter down to a size that is smaller than the distance between the points of space? Then, matter would fall through the framework of space back to the center where it collides with incoming matter and bounces back out again. The universe is made of newly forming layers which have much shorter lifespans than we think, because time varies in speed, greatly. After this world, we are selectively transported back to a younger layer. When the points of a layer get too far apart, space itself breaks down, creates mini black holes, compresses matter, and the matter falls through the empty parts of the framework of space back to the center, to explode out as a new layer.
  12. Dec 22, 2003 #11
    An interesting theory to consider... But how can something bound and created by space, that takes up space, fit between the "Threads" of the fabric of the universe? I'm not saying that it can't happen, but how gravity and such forces, being part of space in a way, can achieve this. If it can, then it makes perfect sense.
  13. Dec 23, 2003 #12
    It cant unfortunatly. a new theory would have to be invented that added another dimension for the black hole to fit within.

    The true cause of the 'universe' will never be known... I think 'time' is a dimension that man will never be able to climb out of and view from a larger perspective.
    Remember string theory is not the answer to everything but mearly merges 2 pre-existing theorys. before m-theory and before the atom was discovered, we probobly would have assumed that newton or einstein explained everything.
    Something new will always come along that we hadnt anticipated that will force us to rechange our thinking and yet another theory will need to be postulated.
    So to title m-theory as the theory of everything is a bit egotisticle and inacurate.

    You can always solve the big bang problem with the 2 dimensions touching each other but then... what created those

  14. Dec 23, 2003 #13
    I just want to get something straight...

    Because time is an energy, by default it has to create matter some how? I thought matter can't be created or destroyed, but maybe before all the basic laws of the universe came into play, time itself created all that we know?
  15. Dec 23, 2003 #14
    As far as i understand it, matter isnt being created from nothing. It's more a perspective that it comes from nothing simply because it existed in a dimension we arent presently aware of/able to prove and somehow over the course of time it transfers itself into our dimension?

    So one moment it seems as though it isnt here, and the next it appears to come from out of nowhere.
  16. Dec 24, 2003 #15
    The matter slipping from unseen dimensions theory seems good, but where do you hear that matter appears to be coming from nothing? If you are refering to the initiality, then that wouldn't fit. The expanding universe appears to be caused by dark energy, the nature of which is yet unexplained.

    I find it likely that time is the source of the infinite energy and matter that resulted in what is now and thus established our laws. The question would then be about the origin of time itself, which is far more complex.
  17. Dec 24, 2003 #16
    I dont know that doesnt really seem to hold up with where everyone else is coming from though. It all depends on your viewpoints of time i suppose.

    Theres a group of people that seem to belive its actually something tangable that can be correlated to other events and then theres the group that simply believes its a means of measuring events themselves. I tend to find myself within the latter atleast so far.

    To this day we still dont know what gravity is, yet were already refering to gravitons as if they exist.

    Time unfortunatly is way too close looping physics back to religion. Show me a 'piece' of time aside from it simply being a moment in existance. basically impossible.

  18. Dec 26, 2003 #17
    The Here is everywhere

    As the space and time is to get away fast still, the here or owned or had is everywhere in future. To get in nature is in nature way unchanged. The physics is a tool to ease it . But it is a value in this world or another livithings worlds to known by the wisdom thought. As the universy is grown now fast , here is everywhere. So beautiful future in this world for humans and some another worlds for another livithings.
  19. Dec 26, 2003 #18
    A question is in dimension

    As usually idea, the dimension is so everywhere. but in nature, it is unknown now, in time the semi-dimension is trouble very, as a point , a universe point , the dimension questions is unknown now.
  20. Dec 27, 2003 #19
    so maybe the universe has a twin brother, and the two universes take turns sucking or blowing all matter into each other like two balloons in vacuum.
    Wouldnt that explain increased expansion of the universe before it would start to collapse again.

    Its like breathing....in,out,in,out....

    just a thought
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