There is no we

  • #26
1. For Alias:

Well, I have to exclude Japan from my list. The US could reduce Japan to nothing after WWII, it could smash Japan's economical/industrial infrastructure but didn't. That was wise and humane, yet profitable. The US now has a worthy competitor to inspire growth and advancement.
While I think your solution seems to make some sense, it is simply too nebulous...
You're right. The only way I can think of for achieving dynamism in elite body is individual awareness, both in the nation and its elite body. If the members of the elite body become knowledgeable thinkers they themselves will guarantee the dynamism but finding knowledgeable thinkers is a cumbersome task and setting them up as the elite is even harder. There're always those who can't be classified in that group but find their way into the elite body.

Perhaps the best manner is increasing average awareness of the society to ensure there will be a minimum number of trustable individuals in the elite body. This is happening right now, alas, too slowly.

Increasing average social awareness seems to be related with education but then even in societies where all people have had basic education, social awareness can't be guaranteed. It needs much more than education. All people won't become scientists, the same way all people won't become socially aware. Becoming a scientist depends on many obscure factors, so does becoming socially aware.
Also, so that we can put some of your comments in context, please tell us where you live?
That may awaken unconscious hostility so I won't tell. I apologize if apologies are due. What part of my comments you can't put in context?

2. For russ_waters:
That idea is wholly incompatbile with the freedoms and rights the Constitution was designed to protect...
I don't appreciate the use of "evil" there, I'd rather say "problematic." Here is another dilemma: if a system of governance limits the amount of wealth associated with an individual it has limited the potential of growth (and possibly induced corruption of power), on the other hand, if it lets individual wealth grow as much as possible it has raised the potential of abuse and lobbying (for wealth is a parallel to political power).

Both parts of the dilemma have been put to test. The USSR before NEP suffered very low growth rate and motivation because of limitations. The US suffers undeniable lobbying and abuse because of almost limitless freedom within legal boundaries.
Yes. And I would say exactly that. Their failure is their own fault.
What about US/Europe history of domination over these countries? Didn't South Africa suffer Apartheid (which was clearly a harsh implementation of racism) with European support? Didn't Algeria witness slaughter by the European (the French, in particular)? Aren't most of current civil wars in Africa fought with American weapons on both sides? They can't foresee the results of civil wars but US weapon dealers arm them just for money.
We're damned if we do, damned if we don't, aren't we? Owning a PDA and being altruistic are NOT mutually exclusive concepts...
There's no such thing as altruism. I'm talking of mutual benefit and equality. The US treated Germany well after WWII and now they both are enjoying mutual benefits.

I'm not quite sure if US pursued the same targets in Somalia and Iraq as for Germany. These countries have had a bad time with their mostly European dominators. The US/European dominators enslaved the African, misled Arabs, deceived the people of Latin America, robbed them of their resources and didn't let them enjoy what in fact belonged to them.

The European were righteous to some extent for the people of those countries couldn't extract and use these resources but surely deserved at least half of the profit to be able to develop their land and someday become independent developed countries. The European, however, saw it to their benefit to keep these people in poverty and unawareness. This was inhuman and unwise for this attitude made the gap between developed and undeveloped countries even wider and gave birth to militant resistance cells in those countries who now appear as terrorists come to take vengeance for all the years of domination and the following years of poverty and pain. Nothing other than deep pain makes someone lose her/his life as a suicide-bomber.
... Bad environmental policies in other countries are all our fault...
I never meant that. Those polluting industrial complexes aren't native to the countries they're located in. This isn't bad environmental politics in those countries. It's seeking even more profit for the US industry owners who find it a precious point of weakness, a kissable blend of poverty and lack of environmental laws. Even if those courtiers had the right laws, they had to give in for the chip of profit US industry owners throw for them. After all they're poor and they aren't US citizens, what prevents the industry owners from abusing them?

And what do you mean with a line of asterisks?
Actually, could you tell us HOW exactly the US is causing you to suffer? What is your suffering? This would also help us greatly in understanding the basis of your point of view. It would appear that most people in here who are anti-US feel they have been personally wronged by us.
I have to be honest. I've always had rich food, treated water, electricity, books, education and almost the latest technological advances available to a below average US citizen (except for the PDAs and broadband Internet access which haven't become popular here).

This, however, is threatened by almost non-existent social and political security and unbelievably corrupt authority. In the course of the last 400 years, my country experienced 3 situations of desirable reform. The first two were cancelled out by the British and the last by the American. Resultant was an extremist revolution leading into a system of governance which was really good for almost 2 years and then came the corruption and war.

The war was induced by the US. The weapons for the violator were provided by the US and European countries, they aided the violator financially to a magnitude of tens of billion dollars. The violator used BNC type weapons against my country provided by Germany and France while they accused my country of using them. After the war, UN confirmed that my country hadn't used any BNC weapons and that my country wasn't the violator. The violator had international support and never paid the compensation. My country held times the number of POWs they held because they killed more than they captured. There were still POWs of my country in the prisons of the violator until the last month. Imagine, some of them were there for 20 years. And I spent my childhood during that war.

War necessities brought the worst possible groups to power and gave them the excuse for doing everything. Opposition and hostility from the US also allowed them to do whatever they wanted in the name of homeland security (haha, you're gonna see what homeland security means :wink:). Now they're still there and do whatever they please.

Before the revolution, Britain and Russia first and the US later made use of my country to govern the region. They didn't give my nation the means of development, instead they armed my country to be the region's bulldog. They didn't let my nation find its way to prosperity, instead they helped a military man (someone like Kemal Ataturk) get to power to fulfill their wishes.

I'm not blind to my country's and my nation's faults. What happens to them these days is the outcome of their own idiocy and weaknesses but only partly. A big share of this situation is made up by the Europeans and the US.

By the way, I'm NOT anti-US. I think the US has always done its best for its citizens and that's enough for a good state but not enough for today's complex and interconnected world. The nations are inseparably tied together and policies that serve homeland advantage at the cost of others' disadvantage, won't work anymore.
 
  • #27
arivero
Gold Member
3,314
68
hmm we?

I thought "WE" was acrostic for Western Europe (see previous discussions around the net).

So "WE did not start the war, it was started by US" is almost a gramatically perfect and true sentence.
 
  • #28
Ganshauk
Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US is the biggest polluter of the environment.
What?! Are you joking? Perhaps you should do a bit of research. Might I suggest the words "India" and "China" as a starting point? Perhaps "Mexico" may jar your mind, even.

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US is the biggest producer of weapons.
Heh. We don't sell them to the highest bidder, though. Perhaps you could rephrase that as "having the largest nationally condoned military power".

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US is the biggest consumer of energy, to no use.
No use? Wait a minute. The power needs of 280 million people serve no needs? Seeing as how you admit that you haven't been in the USA, wtf do you know? Just because we are intelligent enough to provide for our own (with a bit to spare for civilization's sake) doesn't mean we are useless in our consumption. No use, forsooth. I find the tone of your argument very offensive indeed.


Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US, with all its resourcefulness, is wasting the chance to colonize space that is our only way to long-term survival.
I challenge any country, I repeat, ANY COUNTRY, indeed, to come within one iota of the expenditure both in resources and manpower to colonize space that the US exhibits. We are, sir, the ONLY driving source for colonization that now exists. Period.

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US, with all its love for Democracy, has been the only supporter of several dictators all over the world, Augusto Pinochet for example. For a close-up, read Isabel Allende's "La Casa de los Espiritus" (The House of The Spirits).
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

You run your country the way you want. Why do you feel it's our responsibility for your backwardness. Albeit, cross us and its a whole other story :) And as for "sole" supporter - where the f*ck do you get this info anyway? Let me introduce you to a few colleagues of ours: Russia, France, China, Germany, England, Japan... need I go on?

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US, with all its love for peace, has initiated many wars after WW II, Iraq-Iran war for example.
No sir. Every war (including the current one) was started by others. The significant fact you seem to be missing is that the US alone had the power to end it.

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
The US, with all its love for human rights, has to all extents (even militant action, aside from conspiracy) supported several multinational companies to suck up poor people's blood to make money for the US.
This is asinine. Period. Look at what foolishness you are spouting, dear friend : "Multinational" means, literally, "many nations". How can you blame the US for everyone's mistakes (assuming they are actually exploitive mistakes to begin with which IMHO they are not). Control thyself, please.

Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
I don't care if I or a billion other individuals die but I do care if the species is going to disappear.
Do you think it's Sci-Fi? You're dreaming of safety then. This world is close to a verge. Someday in near future all human beings will see the outcome of 200 years of ignorant behavior, when homo sapiens will become extinct.
You may be quite right.

You must understand however, the USA has more cognizance of these issues than almost anyone on the planet (mostly because we can afford it). Such accusations as you propound are not only ignorant of the facts, but totally anticausal in nature!

You, sir, may throw stones only if your slate is clean. Otherwise, STFU and let us get on with saving the sorry world your 3-rd world evangelists have bequeathed from an ignominious demise. Thank you very much.
 
  • #29
1. For Ganshauk:

What?! Are you joking? Perhaps you should do a bit of research. Might I suggest the words "India" and "China" as a starting point? Perhaps "Mexico" may jar your mind, even.
No, I'm quite serious. For a cold start read this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2042856.stm

These Sahelian countries have almost no industrial complexes to pollute for they don't even have the knowledge for building factories, let alone the money. They suffered drought because others' (and those greedy ones, of course) were producing goods. This is just a nice example where no one knew what the effects were. There are harsher examples where almost everyone knows what's happening. Some stuff on that subject: (read them word by word)
http://library.thinkquest.org/26026...oblems_in_the_thir.html?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0413
http://www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/05/05242002/ap_47341.asp [Broken]

Mexico city is one of the most polluted urban areas in the world but they aren't the biggest polluters. See how US industry pollutes abroad while it benefits unaware citizens (good for US citizens but bad for everyone else, in the long run US citizens will suffer, too):
http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=2588 [Broken]

The US rejected Kyoto Protocol along with Australia (I guess, if US didn't do so they'd seem to be breaking it on a daily basis). I'd like to draw your attention to these paragraphs:

"The poorest suffer
A harsh fact of global climate change is that while rich countries are more to blame, it is people in poor countries who stand to suffer the most. Some would argue that it is not feasible to expect developing countries to contribute hugely to reductions when they are not to blame for the current situation."

"After the US pulled out in March 2001, the treaty was left shattered. A compromise was reached four months later, with nearly 180 nations opting for a scaled-down version of the treaty, but President Bush has stated that the US will never sign it."
From the BBC artcile on Kyoto Treaty:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/climatechange/kyototreaty.shtml [Broken]

And George W. Bush says he'll be pursuing other more efficient policies. I think you're informed enough about his backgrounds and past to see what he means with "efficient."

Another BBC article along with its chart of carbon dioxide emission (where the US reigns supreme followed by China, Russia, Japan, Germany, India, UK, Canada, Italy and Korea)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1248278.stm

Another set of regional CO2 emissions estimates:
http://arch.rivm.nl/env/int/hyde/eise_co2a.html [Broken]

See, my country and Mexico aren't among them but the US is atop. It's me who suffers the pollution while I've never enjoyed the wealth produced by these polluting countries (anyway I don't want that wealth). US's 280 million people, about 4.7% of world population produce about 25% of the entire CO2 emission. It seems fair, don't you agree?

SO2 emmission estimates:
http://arch.rivm.nl/env/int/hyde/eise_lefohn.html [Broken]

East Asia is atop, followed by the US and then the former USSR. See, the US precedes the former USSR.

East Asia is a rival to US in these emissions estimates. The reason is that many of those multinationals have their factories located where the poverty dilemma reigns (especially in China).

I'm not claiming that other countries are innocent lambs but the US has been a damn bad liar among them. Never accepted their guilt while their biggie big industry owners were polluting abroad (and perhaps even within their own national borders, who rules there, do you think?). Always pretended like they were doing the right thing until they themselves believed the big lie (seems so).

Heh. We don't sell them to the highest bidder, though. Perhaps you could rephrase that as "having the largest nationally condoned military power".
Hah! The US has armed Arabs and Isreal (aside from financial aids that've given Israel the ability to rival US in weapons R&D), they armed Iraq against Iran, they arm African militias (legally or illegaly), they supply arms to anyone who pays (legally or illegaly, in fact all against the laws but supported by those who're beyond laws, guess who).

The US has the largest storage of weapons in all flavors. See this for a comparison of defense budgets:
http://www.clw.org/milspend/ushighestbudget.html [Broken]

You see, the increase over 2002-2003 fiscal year is far larger than UK's entire defense budget.

Who are they going to fight? And how do they excuse such a big waste of energy and raw material? Will they possibly recycle cruise missiles when they find out no one is out there to fight them? Just tell me who wants to do them harm? The worst scenario (which makes your CNN reporters shed crocodile tears) is a bunch of terrorists and the "baddies." It won't need as much weapons as the US has stored by now to wipe them off the planet, let alone so much more they're going to produce.

No use? Wait a minute. The power needs of 280 million people serve no needs? ...
Yes, to no use. The US has wasted unbelievable amounts of energy and material on providing your nation with luxury and to produce absolutely useless loads of weapons. This world is hungry and decaying, and the US wastes the (mostly stolen) resources of poor nations on producing what would best suit American dogs, cats, and recently pythons and chameleons. And there's no limit to what US citizens may enjoy; do you like pretty female Andriods at the cost of a few hundred African lives or you'd prefer interactive TV working on VLSI chips that cost Asian blood and sweat?

Take a look at this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gmdebate/Story/0,2763,805825,00.html

Aside from this example, the US has practiced grain dumping in face of surpluses for many years. Who gave them the right to play with others' lives? Just tell me who let those agricultural giants seek their profit in other people's death and suffering?

Is that intelligence that makes the US superior or deception, conspiracy, fix and ... well, these are forms of intelligence, na?
http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=2174 [Broken]
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/28/039.html

Unfortunately enough, even all of US citizens aren't enjoying this dirty wealth:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/povertyrate.html [Broken]

And see how the US precedes every other nation in per capita energy consumption:
http://relcom.website.ru/wfs-moscow/eng/morrison.htm [Broken]

This isn't the sum, this is per person. Every American individual consumes times more than people of other coutries, even Western Europe. Where's this abundance come from? Do its sources lie within your national boundaries? Do you have energon crystals there?! Oh, no! Energon is a tale. You have the "intelligence" to take away others' rights, use up their resources and call them "barbarian," "uncivilized" and "evil." That must be fun!
... expenditure both in resources and manpower to colonize space that the US exhibits...
I'm not a liar, like you are. I will be honest. No country can come close to US's space research advances but that's not enough. No country can afford budgets of the magnitude the US government grants but that's not enough. The US is mankind's only hope for that purpose even if the colonists will be all American.

Why doesn't your president increase NASA budget while he requests an astronomical increase for DoD, military research and offense-oriented budgets? Isn't that he lacks foresight? Isn't that waste of resources?
http://www.aaas.org/spp/cstc/stc/stc01/01-03/bushbudget.htm [Broken]

Don't tell me these resources are all yours and you well know how to spend (read: waste) them. This wealth has been gathered out of cheap man hours in Asia, Africa, the former Soviet Union (perhaps except Russia and Ukraine), Latin America and South America. This wealth has been gathered out of deprivations most of the world's population experience, out of nations' whole sale in the name of liberation (read: enslavement).
You run your country the way you want. Why do you feel it's our responsibility for your backwardness...
Lies, lies and more lies. How did you learn that my nation has ever had any options during the last 400 years?

If it was my nation's right to control their land, why did the US help a tyrant, who was on the run, come back to my country and rule? Why did the US sort out things for the tyrant to imprison my country's legal Prime Minister? Why did the US oppose the nationalization of resources controlled by American-British corporations?

Why did the US impose capitulation laws on my country? Did you know that 40 years ago an American dog had more rights in my country than human individuals of my nation?

Do you know what is the meaning of CAPITULATION LAWS?

Do you know how many people did that tyrant kill before his fall? Do you know US's opposition with reforms in my country led to an extremist revolution?

My country's previous regime, led by the tyrant, was pro-US. It killed and tortured many people. The tyrant's sister had a drug business run here. The tyrant saw the US as his benefactor and gave them unconditional privileges for taking away whatever they wanted. My country's new regime is contra-US. What's happened? My nation freed themselves from a pro-US tyrant to get trapped in an extremist contra-US regime. This so-called contra-US regime couldn't be there if the US didn't show so much hostility against my nation and against all their efforts for peaceful reforms. Do you know the cost of extremism? The revolution ate its own children.

continued on the next post...
 
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  • #30
continued from the previous post...

Do you know my nation is poor partly because of US's unfair embargoes? My country has to buy US-made goods from third parties at prices times more than their real cost.
... Look at what foolishness you are spouting, dear friend : "Multinational" means, literally, "many nations". How can you blame the US for everyone's mistakes (assuming they are actually exploitive mistakes to begin with which IMHO they are not)...
Literal meaning doesn't always equal the technical meaning of a word. Multinational companies aren't made to serve several nations; they're first-world-based giants whose dominion spans across several nations. The polluting and labor-requiring parts are usually located in third world and developing countries where labor force is cheap and environmental rules aren't strict (because if they were, those countries had to trade off people's lives for a clean environment for they're dependent on the minuscule part of the profit that multinational companies share with them) while the management and the market is located in first world and developed countries or the richer parts of developing countries.

Most and worst of world's multinationals are from the US. Their top HQ is located in the US plus that the big part of profit flows directly home. The blood and sweat of the Asian turns into the luxury of the American. Do you like it? Surely!
http://www.truthinmedia.org/Columns/clip-26-97.html [Broken]
You must understand however, the USA has more cognizance of these issues than almost anyone on the planet (mostly because we can afford it). Such accusations as you propound are not only ignorant of the facts, but totally anticausal in nature!

You, sir, may throw stones only if your slate is clean. Otherwise, STFU and let us get on with saving the sorry world your 3-rd world evangelists have bequeathed from an ignominious demise. Thank you very much.
If the US is concerned with these issues then where does this whole lot of evidence (all from pro-US sources) I presented come from?

Once again I repeat, I'm not anti-US. I've said before that I think the US is the beating heart of this world (read my previous posts).

I'm not directing accusations at anyone. I'm only tired of lies, useless pride and hypocrisy. I'm not pointing at an ordinary US citizen. I'm not pointing at you, russ_waters, Alias or any other ordinary individual from the US.

Now I no more care if this world is gonna blow, no matter who has caused that. I just don't want to hear lies:

"We are the Messiah to this world!"
"We've come to rescue"
"We've come to liberate"
"Oh! Good we helped the barbarians!"
"We, altruist Americans, have donated so much"
"We aren't guilty of what happens in this world"
"We are the righteous!"
"Those baddies don't like us, why? We're so good"
"We, Crusaders of the Lord, have come to bye bye the infidels"
.
.
.
.

And my slate is clean for I'm not lying.
 
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  • #31
Nicool003
Wrong. There is a "we"


But There Is No Try :wink:


My country has to buy US-made goods from third parties at prices times more than their real cost.
Maybe I mis-understand but I don't think I do. If you buy goods from third parties that bought them from the US then they are now in posession of them and can put the prices wherever they want to. It is not the fault of the US that you buy from the lousy people that you buy from. They by them from us and like I said, can put the prices wherever they want.
 
  • #32
1. For Nicool003:

... If you buy goods from third parties that bought them from the US then they are now in posession of them and can put the prices wherever they want to. It is not the fault of the US that you buy from the lousy people that you buy from...
So if some US corporation has a monopoly on some product inside US borders and sells it at its favorite price, they're absolutely right. Matter of fact it isn't that way. Even the US, the home of free trade, has regulations that prevent monopoly and excessive profit on products. You have something called consumer rights (over quality and price). Why on earth do you think Microsoft was sued? What is this anti-trust controversy all about?

The US has all the good for inside its borders but when it comes to thinking of others' rights they act like others are inferior.

Those lousy people who sell US-made goods and act as the middleman are all US's allies, they're members of the EU and/or some Arab countries. The US is well aware of this and sets the embargoes as sort of gift to those agent countries. That's why I call them "unfair" embargoes. They aren't there because my nation is guilty of some proven international crime; they're there to benefit the agents.

Plus that some of these goods are so essential that can't be denied even to a real enemy, let alone my country that has no power against the US (but they treat my nation like an enemy for they always need a "them" to place "us" against in order to ensure their national unity is maintained). There are certain chemicals used for the manufacturing of some basic medicines (these chemicals have no military use). There are expensive drugs for heart conditions and some other severe diseases. There are machines used in blood treatment after it's taken from blood donors (they do have military use but you can't tell people to die because some machine has military use).

My country had to buy all of these so it was forced to pay many times more and lose the funds it needed so hard for development.

The US, on the other hand, needs raw material for its industries. The stream of raw material is provided by many undeveloped countries that’ve nothing but unrecoverable natural resources. Whenever one of these countries has tried to cut down the supply in order to increase the prices or to take some advantage of its customers, the US has cancelled out this effort with either militant action or conspiracy and deception.

If this game has some rules (like that you say the possessor has rights over whatever the possession) the rules apply to everyone. The US can't play the game all to its own benefit. There's something called "mutual" benefit that the US authority seems to be unaware of.

It's unfair to oblige my country to sell its resources at a limited price but force it into buying its needs at unrestricted prices times more than the real costs.
 
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  • #33
russ_watters
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If it was my nation's...
You keep referencing your nation, but you won't tell us what nation it is. Unless we know there is no discussion possible.

And the row of asterisks was there to set that part of the post out: Your opinion appears based on personal experience and your perceptions of the US's actions toward your country. It is essential that we know who we are talking to in order to have an informed discussion. I will tell you pretty much anything about me you want to know (within reason).
 
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  • #34
1. For russ_waters:
You keep referencing your nation, but you won't tell us what nation it is. Unless we know there is no discussion possible.
I said it may rise unconscious hositlity and apologized. Do you mean perhaps I'm not telling the truth about my nation and you have to compare my claims to some more creditable sources? If you really need it I'll risk telling you. Do you really need it?
 
  • #35
I apologize again! I can't tell you but I guess you already know where I'm from. I've given so much detail.
 
  • #36
russ_watters
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Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
I said it may rise unconscious hositlity and apologized. Do you mean perhaps I'm not telling the truth about my nation and you have to compare my claims to some more creditable sources? If you really need it I'll risk telling you. Do you really need it?
If you look through this forum, you'll see there has been very little hostility in it - and none from me. The reason I (and others) want to know is to compare your claims with my own knowlege (and your claims have been pretty specific). Right now I can't do that. If you want to continue this discussion we need to know what you are talking about. Your choice.
 
  • #37
Well, I think I'd better keep it for me. I draw back. I take all my claims back and thank you for your time. Thank everyone for their time.

Until now I've used too many generalizations like "my country" and "my nation". I shouldn't have done so. I retreat back to my being "I" and from now on speak only on my behalf.

And I haven't been personally wronged neither by the US nor by any other country/nation/government.

Thanks.
 
  • #38
russ_watters
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19,851
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Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
Well, I think I'd better keep it for me. I draw back. I take all my claims back and thank you for your time. Thank everyone for their time.

Until now I've used too many generalizations like "my country" and "my nation". I shouldn't have done so. I retreat back to my being "I" and from now on speak only on my behalf.

And I haven't been personally wronged neither by the US nor by any other country/nation/government.

Thanks.
[?] Bizarre.
 
  • #39
Does the question smiley mean I should explain more?
 
  • #40
russ_watters
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19,851
6,274
Originally posted by Manuel_Silvio
Does the question smiley mean I should explain more?
No. I said it was up to you. I guess that makes this discussion finished.
 
  • #41
Nicool003
Do better research. Part of the reason if not most of the reason microsoft was sued was because it was becoming so big between computers, XBOX, and other technologies, that it became to powerful in the stock market and they are trying to breakit apart. Since it got so big it kept bringing in more and more mulah.
 
  • #42
damgo
^^^ Whoa... you're not claiming Microsoft didn't engage in unfair, monopolistic, and patently illegal competitive practices, are you? On the Internet? God help you if you are... ;)
 
  • #43
russ_watters
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19,851
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Originally posted by Nicool003
Do better research. Part of the reason if not most of the reason microsoft was sued was because it was becoming so big between computers, XBOX, and other technologies, that it became to powerful in the stock market and they are trying to breakit apart. Since it got so big it kept bringing in more and more mulah.
Its a little more basic than that. MS flat out blackmailed (and still does) their customers, both OEM and end-user. That and their actions with regard to Java is what got them convicted.
 

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