# News They said it - Impeachment

1. Nov 4, 2005

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
They said it - Impeachment!!!

AFAIK, the first serious suggestion by a talking head that an impeachment may be in the works - Eleanor Clift of Newsweek. In agreement were Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune, and somewhat so, Mort Zuckerman of US News and World Report. This, all on the McLaughlin Group in regards to falsified or misleading information used to justify the war. Of course this depends in large part on the 2006 election. Clearly McLaughlin also believes that an intentional effort to deceive the public was afoot.

Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
2. Nov 4, 2005

### Skyhunter

It certainly seems from the downing street memo, the fake Niger yellow cake documents that there was a game being played, and we were being manipulated. This is becoming more and more obvious, and only the extremely blinded right cannot see it.

My pro-Bush brother called me yesterday to tell me he thinks Bush should be impeached.

Not with this Congress though, the leadership refuses to investigate anything the administration is doing or has done, and Dem's don't have subpoena power.

3. Nov 5, 2005

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
I had to laugh when the Bush supporters claimed that when Rove wasn't indicted, the whole matter was about over. I think that Fitzgerald knows that he has the opener for the whole can of worms. This will just take time to play out.

4. Nov 5, 2005

### Skyhunter

I was surprised when Scooter didn't fall on the sword and cop a plea, so that the whole affair could be swept under the rug before the next election cycle.

Here is an organization with a plan.

http://impeachpac.org/

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2005
5. Nov 5, 2005

### SOS2008

Consider the options. If he cut a deal, he would have had to do so via exchange of information that could bring down the cabal immediately. The question is why not just plead guilty? Well who would want to go to jail? Instead he secured one of the best lawyers for a knockdown drag-out fight to save himself as best he can. I say you go boy--drag this thing right into 2006.

EDIT: From the link: "A brand new poll that you paid for (see below) reports 53% of Americans think Bush should be impeached for lying about Iraq, while only 42% disagree."

Once again, and as always, I find it disturbing that 42% don't think lying about Iraq is worthy of impeachment. Holy cow--this is what concerns me the most about this country!

Corrected from copped a plea to cut a deal. :-)

Last edited: Nov 5, 2005
6. Nov 5, 2005

### Skyhunter

Cop a plea is not the same as cut a deal.

Pleading guilty could have put an end to a trial that will feed the media, even if it is force feeding to some portions of the media.

Scooter has money. A lawyers best client is a rich man in trouble. It will be interesting to watch how this plays out.

Who will fill step in to fill the leadership void that inevitably is coming.

Looks like Cheney is gearing up for a fight by bringing David Addington in to fill Libby's open position. Here is a Washington Post profile of Addington from last October

I wonder if they will torture poor Scooter.

7. Nov 5, 2005

### Tsu

Let's say we do impeach the SOB. What do we end up with?

President Cheney?

President Hastert? :surprised

I'd take Hastert but definately NOT Cheney.

8. Nov 5, 2005

### Moonbear

Staff Emeritus
That is disturbing, especially since the way the poll question was worded didn't require that you believe he did lie, as I first thought might have been the case when I saw your quote. It was phrased: "If President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should consider holding him accountable through impeachment."

I would understand a poll where 42% didn't believe he should be impeached because they didn't believe he had lied about the reasons for the war, but if it is proven that he did lie, then that sure seems like an impeachable offense to me. Though, I'd still also hold accountable every single member of Congress who approved our entry into the war for not doing their job and checking the facts and examining all the motivations, and basically asking the questions they're supposed to ask before voting to go to war.

Maybe it's time to clean house and start dumping incumbents in elections...I don't care what party, just get the old boys out and bring in some new blood to get rid of all the old favors owed, and paybacks and coverups that keep impeding real progress.

9. Nov 5, 2005

### Moonbear

Staff Emeritus
*shivers* I have to say, that's one thing that gives me serious pause whenever the idea of impeaching Bush is mentioned. As much as I don't think Bush is a good president, I think Cheney would be WAY worse!! Unless they could nail Cheney right along with Bush, I think we'd just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

10. Nov 5, 2005

### Skyhunter

Any member of Congress can introduce one or more articles of impeachment.

Once articles are introduced the leadership must decide whether or not to hold hearings. The current leadership would probably oppose the hearings. This could then become a powerful mid-term issue for Democrats.

Impeach them both in 2007 and Nancy Pelosi would become President.

11. Nov 5, 2005

### edward

According to (page 2) of the link below: The FBI discontinued the investigation into the origin of the fake Niger documents when they came to the conclusion that the documents had been produced for monetary gain.???

It seems to me that a new investigation should begin to determine just who was willing to pay for forged documents. All Bush the administration had to base the invasion of Iraq on was the worthless aluminum tubes and the blasted fake documents.

It is time to cut to the chase and open up this garbage bag of an administration to scrutiny by some agency other than a biased Senate investigation committee.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/03/news/italy.php

12. Nov 5, 2005

### Astronuc

Staff Emeritus
Impeach Cheney as well. Both Bush and Cheney conspired to wage this war AFAIK. Bush mentioned using troops to remove a dictator during the presidential campaign (comment during debate at Wake Forest).

George W. Bush: Opposed Somalia intervention when it became nation-building
Source: Presidential Debate at Wake Forest University - http://www.issues2000.org/Archive/Wake_Forest_debate_Defense.htm

I am quite sure that during the energy task force meetings, Cheney informed Halliburton that the Bush Administration was planning to invade Iraq so that they were well prepared for a non-competitive bid. That needs to be investigated. According to Paul O'Neil, former treasurery secretary, Iraq was the first item on the agenda at the first cabinet meeting.

Where there is smoke . . . .

And given the collateral damage - i.e. 1000's of innocent civilian deaths at the hands of the coalition forces, primarily US - Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al should be incidicted for negligent homicide and manslaughter. They conspired to wage war on a nation that was not a threat to the US.

Last edited: Nov 5, 2005
13. Nov 5, 2005

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
It is starting to look like they will get Bush through Cheney. So I hope for him to go first, then Bush.

14. Nov 5, 2005

### Astronuc

Staff Emeritus
And to the charges above, I would add terrorism, torture, kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit those acts, racketeering and corruption, and otherwise conduct unbecoming of president and VP.

As far as I know, both Bush and Cheney took oaths of office, so lying and misleading Congress is a big no-no.

And, Congress has failed to provide a proper check on the president and VP.

15. Nov 5, 2005

### Art

Here's some more sleaze centered on Halliburton but involving the pentagon too.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...C_0_US-IRAQ-UN-HALLIBURTON.xml&archived=False

It appears this apparent theft of $200 million which the american taxpayer is now being asked by the UN to reimburse is classified as a 'trade secret'. One wonders what other 'trade secrets' Halliburton and it's friends in the admin are hiding. It seems incredible that the american public are allowing this type of scandal to continue. Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2005 16. Nov 5, 2005 ### SOS2008 Now that's a list I'd like to see compiled--all the $$that has disappeared, or been overcharged, or skimmed (kickbacks), redirected, or misappropriated during this administration. I'll bet the total would be enough to pay off our national debt, maybe even shore up Social Security and Medicare, and rebuild New Orleans. 17. Nov 5, 2005 ### Skyhunter Maybe just a slight exaggeration, but I get your point. If the CPA had not told 400,000 members of the Iraqi army, "We kicked your butts, so take your guns and go home", the security situation and reconstruction would not be the disaster it is now. If the administration had not snubbed the rest of the world that wouldn't join their "coalition of the willing", we might be enjoying the help and goodwill of the world community. Oh well, nothing to do for it now, except dump these guys and try to fix their ****-up! 18. Nov 5, 2005 ### Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus This is what was so disheartening throughout the re-election. It became more and more apparent that many Bush supporters would support him no matter what he does. This is why I keep saying that his re-election constitutes a failure of the American people. What in the world are people thinking and doing here? And I have a hard time believing that most people don't know what's going on here. Consider the torture issue. In the country that I believed this to be, that alone would be the end of Bush. Edit: It seems to me that basic American values are lost on a large percentage of the population. I would start teaching kids to read using the U.S. Constitution as the text. Last edited: Nov 5, 2005 19. Nov 5, 2005 ### Art As a european I am shocked by the US of today. Like the vast majority of other europeans I was always very partial to the US and what it stood for. Although there have always been isolated incidents which one could criticise they were generally small in magnitude and few and far between. It was comforting to know that when people were found to have acted illegally against the stated principles of the US they were prosecuted and if elected officials either resigned or were quickly hounded out of office, even if they were the president. It seems to me that from Reagan's tenure to today there has been a huge change in how accountabilty and responsibility is handled in the US with the most worrying aspect being that so many americans seem prepared to condone the worst possible behaviour by their government to the extent that the current administration has an arrogance bordering on dictatorship as they believe they are 'untouchable'. Unfortunately their perception appears to be correct. 20. Nov 5, 2005 ### Astronuc Staff Emeritus Well first, children must be taught to read. Then they must be taught to comprehend. And then they must be taught to think - and think for themselves. TV and video games have certainly helped dumb-down the nation, which is sad indeed. 21. Nov 5, 2005 ### SOS2008 That is part of the answer to the question--certainly in regard to apathy in our country. But I feel it is more than that. I believe the new mix of conservatives is fully aware of the dirt swept under the rug, and often help with the sweeping. The religious-right only care about changing the Supreme Court, the neocons only care about using our superpower status to conquer the world, and big business only care about profits. As long as Bush helps them pursue their agendas (e.g., he is back in good graces with the fundamentalists on the new SC nomination) they will remain loyal to him. In particular, the religious-right has worked hard to achieve power. Those who complain about these things need to work hard to balance it—signing petitions, contacting representatives, voting, and volunteering for candidates they support. 22. Nov 6, 2005 ### faust9 Well, we now have proof that the WH knew MONTHS before it started trumpeting the ties between Al-Queida and Saddam that those ties never existed. So, if the admin KNEW the intel was wrong and used it anyway is that not lying? http://nytimes.com/2005/11/06/polit...&en=0d091794b0c89f27&ei=5094&partner=homepage We also know the admin KNEW the Nigerian yellow-cake story was false (the statement was pulled from the Cinncinnatti speech but managed to work itself back into the congressional address). Bush KNEW this stuff was wrong and still used it to bang the war drums. Bush made statements he knew to be false to congress(an impeachible offense). I wonder how long it will be before more of these lies come forth and when the proceedings will begin.  Ignore my spelling errors. I'm too lazy to fix them. Also, here is what Bush sent to congress just before starting the war: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html [Broken] We now know the 'terrorist' assertions and the like were lies and known to be lies. Hmmm legally binding letter sent to congress riddled with known lies--- makes you wonder. Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017 23. Nov 6, 2005 ### Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus I think it goes deeper than that. Because he was needed on the farm, my grandfather never got past the 8th grade, but he never would have fallen for Bush's line of bull. He was much too wise for that. Now, obviously, 911 factors into the psychology of the masses, and now Americans have been hurt and killed so naturally we want to go out and kill other people, but I have long complained that the Constitution is treated like an afterthought, so in many ways this goes far beyond current events. This problem has gotten worse and worse for as long as I can remember. So even though I agree that education is a problem, and even though 911 acts as a high amplitude transient in the American psyche, this is all part of the bigger problem of losing sight of the values that define this country. Frankly, I don't see how any loyal American can stomach the sight of Bush. He is much of what I was taught defines the enemy. And the constitution does allow for enemies you know; both foreign and domestic. 24. Nov 6, 2005 ### SOS2008 Of course I'm counting the cost of the Iraq war under "misappropriated" though since it is not included in the WH numbers it could be classified as "disappeared," and funds transferred from Afghanistan to Iraq as "redirected," and then back one of the above terms. And when I say during this administration, I mean all the scandals, whether DeLay, Ohio, or what have you. Accounting arguments aside, I believe we had a surplus before Bush started, and that was a lot of$$$ ago. (Hey, did you use the 'f' word? :rofl: )

Last edited: Nov 6, 2005
25. Nov 7, 2005

### Informal Logic

Maybe it is a little of the 'me' generation and lax ethics in business practices. You cannot get ahead just by working hard, and certainly not by being honest and fair. Sometimes you have to fudge a little, so how can there be blame when leaders use the system to his/her advantage? Especially when it is to these individual’s advantage too. When people learn to think outside themselves and truly learn to care for society as a whole, that is the day things will change for the better.