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Things you don't want to hear

  1. Apr 7, 2005 #1

    Clausius2

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    It is surprising all threads are closed before giving me the chance to reply.

    I know, Daniel and rest, there are some things population do not want to hear, because:

    i) are deeply known truths
    ii) are not politically correct, because they damage the opinion of the rest of people about us, all submerged in a generalized hypocrisy.

    I started the discussion with Moses mainly because he mentioned the word "Spain" + "Reconquist of Al-Andalus" + "apologizing"+ "holocaust".

    He is deliberately lying and saying stupidities, he is taunting the History and I am not going to allow it on my presence.

    What you have said about Torquemada is completely true, it is written in the History and I would be so stupid if I try to deny this fact. The fact is: have you seen some Tomas de Torquemada over here any time right now? The answer is no: such horrible acts have been expulsated from here forever.

    On the contrary: Don't have you seen that former violence remains impressed nowadays in muslim world? That is my point of "human evolution".

    As you probably don't know, the 11M Madrid bombing was planned into a Mosque, and Mosque's religious leaders are the very first men who support the conflicts between occident and muslim worlds.

    Another spanish adage is:

    "La verdad es la verdad, la diga Agamenón o su porquero".
    "The truth is the truth, no matter who say it: Agamenon or his pig's farmer".
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 7, 2005 #2
    Clausius, i have not participated a lot in this debate but i just want to let you know that i totally agree with what you say here and what you have said in the 'pope just died' thread. It always strikes me that people are complaining and whinning about the catholic church being non-liberal and conservative, but when this holy institution wants to celebrate some event, then all of the sudden this is MORBID ???

    Pay no attention to people who refuse to aknowledge realtime facts just for the sake of being 'politically' correct. Even when it comes to Islam, in this very specific case, you are just saying what 90% of the Western World thinks but is to scared to actually say. You have all my support and i totally agree with you

    regards
    marlon
     
  4. Apr 7, 2005 #3

    arildno

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    Rednecks have always been in favour of violence, marlon&Clausius2 (in whatever country(side) they appear in).
    What we have been witnessing since 1948 (guess why I chose that year..), is an ousting of the traditional liberal, urban Islamic elite from power, engineered by fanatical imams from the countryside.
    Do not make the mistake of blaming Islamic culture of a lack of civilization as a whole.
    Rednecks have never been civilized, they are by nature dumb and violent; unfortunately, the Islamic world has not been successful in containing their own specimens where they belong (i.e, to live in dirt hovels in backwater regions where no one would bother visiting them anyway).
     
  5. Apr 7, 2005 #4
    Who ever talked about Rednecks ???

    I don't quite see how this is relevant to what Clausius is trying to say ?
    If the point is : violence is bad, then allow me to say that you are not telling anything revealing here.

    And why are you talking about 'blaming the islamic culture' ??? besides, it disturbes me how you think on 'islamic-housing'...sorry...

    regards
    marlon
     
  6. Apr 7, 2005 #5

    arildno

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    My comment was quite appropriate.
    There is a brand of humans in every society who simply must be dismissed having even the ability of civilized behaviour. That brand is "the redneck".
    You can find them anywhere; their influence must be contained so that they don't corrupt the whole society (as they have done in many nowadays Islamic countries).
     
  7. Apr 7, 2005 #6
    Besides, it's so easy to blame the church for individuals like Tomas de Torquemada or the entire Inquisition for that matter. Really, doesn't every institution have such figures? Yes indeed, They have, so let's not start whinning about that.

    regards
    marlon, PACE A TUTTI :)
     
  8. Apr 7, 2005 #7

    Clausius2

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    That's the point. You have hit the head of the nail. Nowadays there is an epidemy of stupidity and hypocrisy between western population and politicians. There are some things you cannot say, but all of us know it to be certain. The fact muslim world is a violent world, (even in more percentage than it is in Western Europe), muslim world has remained in middle ages when perhaps they were a great advanced civilization but it is useless today, muslim religion is the workhorse of all the world criminals who are striking our pacific life, all this is enough proved and stated nowadays, but nobody dares to say it in public.

    This epidemy is enhancing a "silentious invasion", muslim inmigrants "invade" our countries because they don't find any severe Laws to avoid it, and because they see we are so weak due to that hypocrisy. Of course, they haven't got the blame. The blame belongs to us, for allow this invasion and for being so dumb. I think this epidemy and weakness will be the final of Western civilization.

    This is not any propaganda about racism at all. It is a fact, a statiscally proved fact, a general impression and hasn't got any emotional component as racism has.

    I acknowledge your support, Marlon.
     
  9. Apr 7, 2005 #8
    i admire the honesty Clausius. Again i totally agree. i have many muslim-friends here in Belgium and they are the first to aknowledge these facts. It is not a pretty picture BUT IT IS THE TRUTH

    marlon
     
  10. Apr 7, 2005 #9

    Moonbear

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    Guys, I think this is a good reason why PF generally has the policy that religion is not an acceptable topic for discussion. It's hard for it to not turn personal, because everyone's religious beliefs ARE personal. In the Pope thread, it started out noting the death of a notable person, not so much from a religious perspective, but as any famous person's death (the same as you might start a thread on the death of a rock star or president of a country). Unfortunately, it degenerated to a series of attacks on religions and people holding those religious views. I don't see anything constructive coming of this.
     
  11. Apr 8, 2005 #10

    russ_watters

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    I agree with Moonbear and want to amplify: while I agree with some of what is said above, such discussions are rarely ever rational and that's why they are not allowed on PF. It doesn't matter if it starts rational - we don't think its worth it to wait for the inevitable decay.
     
  12. Apr 8, 2005 #11

    Clausius2

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    I understand what you and Russ say.

    But I am not going to allow any person here to pollute the History with absurd comments, which maybe are truths in such undeveloped countries by means of repiting it several times. And I would do it again. Here we are very tire of this class of guys which comes here claiming revenge (besides they come here they show an unbelievable rude behavior against us).

    Am I generalizing without proofs? Yes, probably I am doing it, but I haven't got any statistic because such statistic doesn't exist. I am only based on the general impression of people around me, who live precisely in the core of the problem, and whose opinion is based in experimental facts and not taunted by the distance.

    My discussion is as rational as giving the opinion while living in a modest outskirt of Madrid surrounded by such muslim inmigrants 99% dedicated to thiefs or drug traffics, and the rest 1% working very hard to survive. Besides they come here and besided we show politeness towards them, they form closed societies and pay back with impoliteness and offences.

    Be sure, Moonbear and Russ, if I go sometime to US to work, I will try to do my best being kind and sociable with american people, because I will be aware you are giving me the chance to life in the country you and your parents have built with your effort, and I will try to acknowledge it.

    No matter how bad it sounds, it is how I feel it, and our country has a democratic system which allow me to say this.
     
  13. Apr 8, 2005 #12

    dextercioby

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    It is nice to see this change of tone...:smile:

    Daniel.
     
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