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Those Nasty Photons

  1. Nov 22, 2004 #1
    How about this..

    Photons exists everywhere in universe..
    And i mean everywhere..Think the universe is an aquarium filled with water to its limit..Thats what i mean..
    It has a mass..

    The question is how we couldn't find it yet?

    Answer is quite simple, its equally spreaded so it has no gravitational effect in universe..No positive or negative charge..And photons are only used by heat, in the form of light.So that heat transfer occurs via these photons.And we see it as light..

    Oh and black mater anyone?

    A copper wire carrying electricity is a good example for this..The wire never moves or goes to lightspeed its there and standing still..Its the electricity that moves using the wire and unleashing its energy at the end..Good example of what i am trying to tell here..

    Just thinking loudly, so any phsycian here wanna tell me why i am wrong in a technical manner?
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 22, 2004 #2
    Photons don't exist everywhere like an aquarium. They are the result of definite electromagnetic phenomena which resulted in their creation. even if it is equally spread it does have a gravitational effect because energy is cumulative and GR accounts for this in the stress-energy tensor.

    you never explained how black matter is related to electrons drifting in a wire. It's not electrivity that moves, it's current that flows. A flow of current is essentially a drift of electrons, but what we usually are interested in is the signal that the wire transmits, rather than the electrons themselves.

    And photons aren't "used" only by heat. What do you mean "used"? Photons are part and parcel of all electromagnetic interactions.

    And I'm not a physician (that means doctor), I'm a physicist in the sense that I study it at under-grad level.
  4. Nov 23, 2004 #3
    photons existing in the cosmos flow BETWEEN atoms (gravitation tensor has 10 unique elements) or BETWEEN charges inside atoms (EM tensor has 6 unique elements) so we can conjecture that EM and GR are related.
  5. Nov 23, 2004 #4
    What is the electromagnetic phenomena that resulted in the creation of photons? I'm very curious. (mostly just to masudr)
  6. Nov 23, 2004 #5


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    Photons are carriers of the electromagnetic force. So pretty much ANY electromagnetic interaction generates a photon.
  7. Nov 23, 2004 #6
    Can light exist without Heat?
  8. Nov 23, 2004 #7
    And please what does generate mean? It sounds like they pop up out of nowhere to join the electromagnetic interaction..

    And oh electromagnetism can only occur with photons?

    And i wonder something..Can everyone give a definition of photon here..Cuz i am pretty sure everyone's definiton differ's from others if not from same source..So pls lets try that here
  9. Nov 23, 2004 #8


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    What do you mean by heat?
  10. Nov 23, 2004 #9


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    I would change a couple of words in that:

    " It sounds like they pop up out of nowhere to CAUSE the electromagnetic interaction.."

    The pop out of nowhere part is sort of correct if you understand that some physical event occurs ( .e.g an electron transitions to a lower energy level) which causes a photon to pop out of nowhere. Any physical event which contributes energy to the electromagnetic field causes a photon to be created.
  11. Nov 23, 2004 #10
    I love new age science..

    All those phenomena, poping up particles, things that can't be explained by our maths..

    Sounds more like a religion to me nowadays..and i mean old fashion religion....
  12. Nov 23, 2004 #11
    so photons ARE actually created during an electromagnetic event and carry the electromagnetic energy to wherever? Is that what you're saying.
    If so, what is a photon?
    Is it possible that the photon was inside the electron before it changed energy levels and was simply expelled? :confused:
    Are photons ONLY used to convey light? If so, after the light is "dropped off" (meaning a photon strikes your body, leaves the energy known as light on you which is refracted to the eyes of others) what happens to the photon? Does it keep traveling through you, or does it hook up with your atoms and stays there, or is it bounced off of you to the eyes of others?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2004
  13. Nov 23, 2004 #12
    I'll try. A photon is electromagnetic change that moves through space at a constant speed and constant amplitude.
  14. Nov 23, 2004 #13
    A change? What changes and what does the photon "carry"?
  15. Nov 23, 2004 #14


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    You must realize that your lack of understanding, your lack of mathematical depth, does not translate into the same short comings in others. Perhaps if you were to make an effort to learn and understand modern Physics it would no longer seem like a religion to you. Everything I have attempted to present does have a mathematical foundation. Because I do not present it does not mean that it does not exist.
  16. Nov 23, 2004 #15
    Electromagnetic amplitude changes. The photon carries itself :smile:
  17. Nov 23, 2004 #16
    To answer an earlier question on what photons are, photons are a string of energy that possess properties due to the amplitude of the string's vibration. This is, of course, based on superstring thoery. Also, all subatomic particles are comprised of a string, or perhaps a combo of strings that give them their specific characteristics. :wink:
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2004
  18. Nov 24, 2004 #17
    So integral share your wisdom with me please..

    Yeah please explain if modern physicist believe in particles coming out of nowhere..Why they just don't sit back and say god created everything woow..Our universe poped out of nowhere..

    Oh its unacceptable but some things may be acceptable..Cuz they fit in a theory..

    Thats bull****..And when i say that, you call it lack of understanding, i call it logic..
  19. Nov 24, 2004 #18


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    There is much which you do not understand. Logic based of faulty premises yields nothing meaningful. GIGO.

    You bet Physicist believe in particles popping out of nothing. I thought this was common knowledge?? I really cannot even begin to explain the concepts of electromagnetism and of photons when you do not understand even the every basic concepts, like energy. I could hand you an encyclopedia with the complete knowledge of mankind, but if it is not in a language you can read it is useless.

    I you will do even a little searching and reading of threads in this forum you will find that your questions are quite common and have been answered over and over again. Why not put some effort into this and see what you can find.
  20. Nov 24, 2004 #19
    hazarding a guess, photons bump into photons so there's a stochastic nature to the energy of deep space as well as the photons being expelled from atoms; does quantum theory say anything about photon-photon collisions in deep space?
  21. Nov 24, 2004 #20
    I think it is more that photons interact than collide. Think of a beebe moving under a sheet. The whole area of the ripple determines the future position of this photon and other photons in the area. The peak in the ripple has the greatist probability of photon interaction with a target. The probability diminishes exponentially with distance from the peak.

    I'm not a QM expert, this is just my conjured up image of how the thing works.
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