The Thrill of the Kill: A Chilling Tale

[Ivan Seeking]

The woman who usually cuts my hair wasn't in today so I was scheduled for a cut with a beautiful young woman whom I had never seen before. We were exchanging the typical pleasantries when she mentioned that her fiancé is a cop. She told me a bit about his work and then asked if I had heard of the Jane Doe case [real name omitted here]. "No", I replied. She went on to tell me about a woman who had robbed several stores in the area. When the perpetrator was reported to be in a local park, the above-mentioned fiancé took the call. My beautiful young barber then went on to tell me how her fiancé approached the woman, who then began to raise her gun in a threatening manner. With her eyes glistening, and smiling from ear to ear, the barber said, "My fiancé took care of her". "He killed her?", I asked. With her face shining brightly and bearing her perfect pearly whites, she replied with great pride, "Yes, he did".

I nearly became ill. She wasn't just glad that her fiancé was alive and well. She didn’t express any emotion such as relief that her fiancé was alright, or that no one else was hurt. It was sickeningly clear that she got off on this – that she got some kind of personal thrill out of the whole business. I can only hope that as a public servant her fiancé is a bit less bloodthirsty, but then birds of a feather... As for the barber, I now see her as a repulsively ugly and pathetic little woman. It was all quite disturbing.

 

[waht]

Telling a story like that to a stranger is just as pathetic as the person who raised a gun at the cop.

 

[binzing]

Oh wow, I think I may even know which park that is...

 

[Proton Soup]

back when the serial killer Ted Bundy was executed, a bunch of the local cops had a Bundycue feast down at the Golden Rule Barbecue to celebrate.

 

[mcknia07]

Maybe she was just starving for attention...I would hope that's not the way she would want to get it.

 

[Cyrus]

The woman who usually cuts my hair wasn't in today so I was scheduled for a cut with a beautiful young woman whom I had never seen before. We were exchanging the typical pleasantries when she mentioned that her fiancé is a cop. She told me a bit about his work and then asked if I had heard of the Jane Doe case [real name omitted here]. "No", I replied. She went on to tell me about a woman who had robbed several stores in the area. When the perpetrator was reported to be in a local park, the above-mentioned fiancé took the call. My beautiful young barber then went on to tell me how her fiancé approached the woman, who then began to raise her gun in a threatening manner. With her eyes glistening, and smiling from ear to ear, the barber said, "My fiancé took care of her". "He killed her?", I asked. With her face shining brightly and bearing her perfect pearly whites, she replied with great pride, "Yes, he did".

I nearly became ill. She wasn't just glad that her fiancé was alive and well. She didn’t express any emotion such as relief that her fiancé was alright, or that no one else was hurt. It was sickeningly clear that she got off on this – that she got some kind of personal thrill out of the whole business. I can only hope that as a public servant her fiancé is a bit less bloodthirsty, but then birds of a feather... As for the barber, I now see her as a repulsively ugly and pathetic little woman. It was all quite disturbing.

Don't get me wrong, I like guns. But when I hear people go on and on about guns as in: "yeah, this gun will go through three people and bla bla and tear your arm of if it hits you"...

I'm just like...wow, you're a moron. Why do they let you own a gun.

 

[humanino]

Don't get me wrong, I like guns.

Please do get me wrong, I will never understand how a human being with intelligence and feelings can claim to "like" guns. Would you like a guillotine ? The little I know you, I think you do have both intelligence and feelings. What's so great about a device the purpose of which is to take away life ? If it's about design and technology, then build nukes, they make much better shows.

So, where is the difference between this thrill to kill and the thrill for a device whose main purpose is to kill, or at the very least, threaten to kill ?

 

[Proton Soup]

Please do get me wrong, I will never understand how a human being with intelligence and feelings can claim to "like" guns. Would you like a guillotine ? The little I know you, I think you do have both intelligence and feelings. What's so great about a device the purpose of which is to take away life ? If it's about design and technology, then build nukes, they make much better shows.

So, where is the difference between this thrill to kill and the thrill for a device whose main purpose is to kill, or at the very least, threaten to kill ?

i don't care if you get me wrong, but i will never understand how otherwise intelligent, compassionate people cannot understand the importance of being able to defend oneself and one's family against predation.

 

[mcknia07]

It doesn't mean he plans on killing or harming anyone/thing. What's wrong with just owning a gun?

 

[humanino]

i don't care if you get me wrong, but i will never understand how otherwise intelligent, compassionate people cannot understand the importance of being able to defend oneself and one's family against predation.

What's wrong with just owning a gun?

There is a difference between owing a gun and claiming to like guns. In the same manner, there is a difference between opposing to war before it is decided (trying to prevent death) and refusing to serve when it is happening (being a coward). I go to the dentist and I don't like receiving treatment for a cavity.

 

[Cyrus]

Please do get me wrong, I will never understand how a human being with intelligence and feelings can claim to "like" guns. Would you like a guillotine ? The little I know you, I think you do have both intelligence and feelings. What's so great about a device the purpose of which is to take away life ? If it's about design and technology, then build nukes, they make much better shows.

So, where is the difference between this thrill to kill and the thrill for a device whose main purpose is to kill, or at the very least, threaten to kill ?

......um, okay.

 

[maze]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9242/boathurricaneilikewhere.jpg

guncontrol flamewar in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2..

 

[Cyrus]

AHAHAHHAA! Steer LEFT!

 

[Loren Booda]

It sounds like she has vanishingly little sense of ethics. Think twice before she gives you a shave.

 

[Proton Soup]

There is a difference between owing a gun and claiming to like guns. In the same manner, there is a difference between opposing to war before it is decided (trying to prevent death) and refusing to serve when it is happening (being a coward). I go to the dentist and I don't like receiving treatment for a cavity.

what's not to like about a tool that protects you from predators?

 

[turbo]

There is a difference between enjoying marksmanship, etc, and owning guns for self-defense, and taking pleasure in the use of a gun to take the life of another. My wife and I live 'way out in the country, at least 20 minutes away from any 911 response (unless we got very lucky), so we own handguns for home defense. My wife is pretty darned good with the 9mm (P38) and I have a Glock Model 20 with several extra 15-round magazines, though that 10mm Auto is a handful for her. We engage in refreshers/target sessions regularly. Given the rising number of burglaries and home-invasion crimes in the last 5-10 years, it seems prudent to be able to defend ourselves instead of waiting from a response from a 911 call.

I would hate to have to kill another person. That's nothing compared to how bad I would feel if my wife were killed by some idiot looking for drugs or money, and I had not been able to stop them. Maine is very rural, and many home-invasion crimes are motivated by addictions to Oxycontin, etc, or the desire to get quick cash for meth. I am not paranoid or over-cautious - just realistic and hopeful that our trips to the sand-pit are just for fun and practice.

 

[Integral]

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

 

[turbo]

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

I know and like quite a few law-enforcement officers (policemen, wardens, etc) and for the most part they are not only very decent people, but are respectful of the rights of others. There is little to no anonymity in rural areas for law-enforcement professionals, so they have to have the respect of the populace to survive. I wouldn't want their jobs! My cousin's husband retired as Chief of police after 20 years of service, and was given his 9mm Beretta by the town as a parting gift. Not a bad move - I couldn't think of a better man to be watching my back.

 

[maze]

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

If you are hiking in the wilderness and come across a mountain lion, the first thing they teach you is not to run. Mountain lions automatically categorize creatures into 2 groups: prey, and not-prey. If you run, the mountain lion's brain is conditioned to think you are prey and chase you, because that is how animals like deer react. On the other hand, if you move slowly and make yourself look big, you will get placed in the not-prey category along with bears, other mountain lions, etc, and the mountain lion will usually wander off.

Similarly, I have found that cops tend to subconsiously categorize people they meet as either criminal or not-criminal, and react accordingly. It's an automatic "us vs the bad guys" mentality. Through years of dealing with truly bad people under high stress, their mind has been warped to think this way. They probably don't even know they do it, but they do, just like the mountain lion. This is why you see all these outrageous videos of cops shooting an innocent man at a traffic stop, tazering a mentally ill man to death at the airport, or the recent one I just saw today of beating down a 15 year old girl. In all the cases the civilians accidentally did something to put them into the wrong category, and the cops instantly lumped them together with all criminals, just like the mountain lion who sees a man running and thinks it is a deer.

Since I realized this several years ago, my interactions with police officers I met, whether at a traffic stop, or on the street, or whatever, have been much better. The key is to be confident, pleasant, smile, and if possible preemptively ask them a disarming question. Don't allow yourself to get sucked into arguing with a cop, but also don't be meek (offering explanations for things when none are called for, giving underserved praise to the officer, saying thank you thank you sorry sorry, etc) as this will make you look defensive and weak and may be viewed suspiciously. In other words, give off all the signals that say "not criminal".

 

[nottheone]

Please do get me wrong, I will never understand how a human being with intelligence and feelings can claim to "like" guns. Would you like a guillotine ? The little I know you, I think you do have both intelligence and feelings. What's so great about a device the purpose of which is to take away life ? If it's about design and technology, then build nukes, they make much better shows.

So, where is the difference between this thrill to kill and the thrill for a device whose main purpose is to kill, or at the very least, threaten to kill ?

Sorry, but I like guns. To like guns doesn't mean killing things with them. I don't hunt anymore. I did when I was young but now I don't like killing anything other than flies and mosquitos. The only thing I kill with my guns now are beer cans and paper targets. Most men have a gene that disposes them to get off on explosions. I made a cannon once that made the most incredible explosion, it used about 2 cups of black powder. Every guy that was ever with me when I used it, well, was almost visibly excited if you know what I mean. It turned out to be a better rocket than a cannon. It was designed to shoot things but I ended up blowing it into the air. Much like the guys down south that blow anvils into the air. Mine would go up about 400 feet. (it was relatively safe too, 3/4" steel)

Just because something is designed to kill doesn't make it evil. Look at air races. Some pilots use the P-51 Mustang. That was designed for one thing only, to kill and destroy. Does that make it wrong to use it in an air race? What something is designed for and what it's used for are two different things. And if you use a guillotine to slice off the end of your cigar as some people and I do, than it's OK to like guillotines too.

 

[nottheone]

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

I agree. My experience is that in all too many cases the people who want to become cops are the kind of people who shouldn't be. There was a big thing here in CT about a guy that wanted to be a state cop but was turned down because he was too smart, he had a bachelor's degree I think. The reasoning was that being a state cop was mostly a boring job and if someone was too intelligent they wouldn't be happy. Unbelievable as it sounds the decision was held up and the guy never became a cop. He was probably the right kind of person to be a cop. In my opinion being a policeman is an important job and should be done by the right people. I think that cops should be required to have a college degree.

Where they are matters too. My home town used to be small, everyone knew each other and the cops knew everyone too. It wasn't bad back then, now you don't know the cops and they don't know you or care either. And what kind of woman would marry a cop?

The old saying that's an inside joke I guess that if it wasn't for them being cops they would have been criminals might have a grain of truth to it.

Have I mentioned lately I hate cops? I have a couple of friends who are cops but they are town cops, the state police are jack booted storm troopers. Call them for help and you could be arrested.

 

[S_Happens]

This thread makes me wonder when values lost subjectivity. There's some great philosophical discussion behind all this, but this thread definitely isn't headed in that direction. :rofl:

Please do get me wrong, I will never understand how a human being with intelligence and feelings can claim to "like" guns. Would you like a guillotine ? The little I know you, I think you do have both intelligence and feelings. What's so great about a device the purpose of which is to take away life ? If it's about design and technology, then build nukes, they make much better shows.

So, where is the difference between this thrill to kill and the thrill for a device whose main purpose is to kill, or at the very least, threaten to kill ?

Your logic is flawed. The device's purpose is to serve the intent of it's operator (read gun does not equal killing device). This does not correspond directly to killing, regardless of efficiency in doing so. In actuality, the cartridge has much more to do with the firearm's "purpose" than the firearm itself. There are nonlethal cartridges such as rubber, sandbags, rock salt, and the intent of the FMJ (nevermind using a firearm for target shooting, competition, research, stress relief, protection, collectability, etc). There is nothing wrong with deciding you don't approve of the death of others or "devices used to kill...", but that is not equivalent to firearms as a whole. My disagreement is with your incorrect assumption alone. I don't care what your opinion on anything actually is.

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

The thing about beliefs is they don't have to be unified, correct, or even based on anything. It's good to see you had yours reinforced by a thirdhand account that had no details on the emotions of the actual police officer.

 

[humanino]

Your logic is flawed.

No it is not. A gun is designed to kill. Other things with other design purpose, or without design purpose at all, can be used to kill, sure. But this is irrelevant, and you bring that up, not me. A knife is designed to cut meat, it may be used to kill, but it is again irrelevant. A handgun is specifically designed to shoot other human beings, nothing else. If you loose you time shooting at beer cans, well, I can only be sorry for you. So

gun does not equal killing device

Yes it does. A car is designed to take you from one point to an another. If you use it to watch movies while eating pop-corn, it is irrelevant to the design purpose which made car become available to everybody. I use my car for other purposes which moderation will not let me describe.

The very concept of "handgun" was put forward to take away either your life or somebody's else. How can you "like" such a thing ?

 

[edward]

Interesting how quickly this thread changed into a "we need to own guns thread".

 

[S_Happens]

No it is not. A gun is designed to kill. Other things with other design purpose, or without design purpose at all, can be used to kill, sure. But this is irrelevant, and you bring that up, not me.

A firearm is designed to "fire" a specific cartridge. Either you don't know what a cartridge is, or you believe I made reference to death brought about by random objects. I gave a list of nonlethal ammunition types that can be fired in a firearm with the intent not to kill. There are firearms designed to shoot these types of ammunition as well as cartridges that are adapted to current production firearms.

The very concept of "handgun" was put forward to take away either your life or somebody's else. How can you "like" such a thing ?

It's up to you if you want to base your decisions on the original intent of an invention. I would imagine it takes up a lot of time to find out if everything you use had people's best interests in mind when it was thought up. Does it bother you more if a person is shot than bludgeoned to death with a tire iron?

I "like" such things because I do many other things with them than commit murder.

 

[binzing]

Stories such as Ivan's reinforce my belief that anyone who WANTS to be a police officer should be automatically disqualified.

Definitely. If only the US could pull off something like Switzerland does with the military, but being such a huge country, its not likely.

 

[nottheone]

No it is not. A gun is designed to kill. Other things with other design purpose, or without design purpose at all, can be used to kill, sure. But this is irrelevant, and you bring that up, not me. A knife is designed to cut meat, it may be used to kill, but it is again irrelevant. A handgun is specifically designed to shoot other human beings, nothing else. If you loose you time shooting at beer cans, well, I can only be sorry for you. SoYes it does. A car is designed to take you from one point to an another. If you use it to watch movies while eating pop-corn, it is irrelevant to the design purpose which made car become available to everybody. I use my car for other purposes which moderation will not let me describe.

The very concept of "handgun" was put forward to take away either your life or somebody's else. How can you "like" such a thing ?

Congrats, not one of your points is valid. Not all handguns are designed to kill, some are specifically designed to shoot at targets, same with rifles and shotguns. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Some knives are designed to kill people and some are designed to carve a steak. Again you wouldn't be able to tell the difference and I can only assume you have no knives in your house. And I guess you are opposed to archery too.

It is COMPLETELY irrelevant what something is designed for, how it's USED is the only relevant issue. And don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for yourself that you don't know better.

You need to write the olympics committee and tell them that they should not have archery, fencing, the biathlon, the javelin, karate or anything else they are abusing by not doing what they were designed for. And stay away from fireworks shows, you know what rockets, mortars and explosives were designed for. Then there's baseball, clubs weren't invented by cavemen to convince a female to co-habitate.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Regarding the issues of guns, I think the point is moot. First of all, in all likelihood this woman already had a criminal record, in which case it would have been illegal for her to own or possesses a gun. Secondly, it is certainly illegal to rob stores or threaten a cop with a gun, so again THE LAW had no impact on this situation other than giving the cop the right to defend his own life. So we can argue about law all day, but I doubt the criminals who pose the actual threat to society care much. As for personal safety, when I am at home, I ALWAYS have a loaded gun at the ready. And I make sure my wife is comfortable using one, and has one as well. BUT, I sincerely hope that neither my wife or I will ever have to use a weapon in self-defense. I expect it would cause either one of us a great deal of distress under any circumstances.

As far as what this says about the cop, I wondered about that as well. I don't think we can take this woman's opinion or expression of emotion as indicative of her fiancé’s feelings, but, if he had come home upset about the entire episode - if he was appropriately distressed about taking the life of another - then it is hard to see how this woman could be so enthusiastic about what happened. I think what made my stomach turn sour was the sense of sport that she conveyed [or at least that I perceived]. I was reminded of buck fever -a strong emotional reaction that first-time hunters get when they shoot their first deer. This release of primitive emotion is the wild and dominant animal taking glory in the kill, and this is what I was sensing from the barber. This story left me with the feeling that the life of the woman killed mattered about as much as the life of a game animal in a hunt.

 

[S_Happens]

So, let's go ahead and say that she did indeed feel that way. Are you proposing that it means something or just saying it bothered you?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

So, let's go ahead and say that she did indeed feel that way. Are you proposing that it means something or just saying it bothered you?

It was definitely disturbing to see someone so young, who apparently found the death of another human being exciting. But at heart I think I am bothered most by what it implies about the cop.

We have had a number of cops in the family. As a consequence, I have heard stories from them regarding police activities that would certainly cause most people to cringe. Even my cousin, who has been close to law enforcement her entire life, is bothered by things that her husband [a cop] brings home. I also watched as my father's best friend was nearly destroyed after joining the LAPD. It did destroy his family before he finally left the force. When one has to deal with the worst of society, day in and day out, it takes a large emotional toll. I think many are not able to rise above that. But I don't know if this applies to this circumstance. This is not Los Angeles, and I don't know what life for cops is like in rural areas.

Incidentally, when one former cop and family member died some years ago, I got all sorts of illegal weapons that he once carried while on duty. He had an entire gun locker full of them.

 

[nottheone]

I have an old family friend who was a state trooper and he told me stories of police activities that weren't exactly sanctioned by society or law.

 

[Topher925]

Cops don't become cops to hand out traffic tickets. Haven't any of you see The Departed?

 

[russ_watters]

The thing about beliefs is they don't have to be unified, correct, or even based on anything. It's good to see you had yours reinforced by a thirdhand account that had no details on the emotions of the actual police officer.

Indeed! Ivan's account contained no statement about what the cop was thinking! And only inferences drawn about what the facial expressions of the person telling the story mean! Gee, is it possible that Ivan's preconceptions could have been reinforced too, and by picking an interpretation that fits with those beliefs? The thing about hardened beliefs is that you can make damn near anything you see fit them.

Ivan, did you ask her what she was so happy about?

These threads disgust me.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Indeed! Ivan's account contained no statement about what the cop was thinking! And only inferences drawn about what the facial expressions of the person telling the story mean! Gee, is it possible that Ivan's preconceptions could have been reinforced too, and by picking an interpretation that fits with those beliefs? The thing about hardened beliefs is that you can make damn near anything you see fit them.

Who said that I was expecting anything? Why are you rushing to judgement with no information. The fact is that I had no expectations. We were having what I thought was an innocent and pleasant conversation. Apparently this is how she introduces herself to complete strangers.

Ivan, did you ask her what she was so happy about?

No. It was clear that she found this all to be quite exciting. You might want to play word games, but I know what I saw and heard. I also made it clear that what bothered me was the implication of what it said about her fiance. I also stated specifically that the implication is just that - an implication - not a fact.

These threads disgust me.

I am glad that you are disgusted by an honest accounting of a personal encounter - in this case you should be! However, if you find this to be offensive, then stay out of it. No one twisting your arm.

 

[Huckleberry]

It was definitely disturbing to see someone so young, who apparently found the death of another human being exciting. But at heart I think I am bothered most by what it implies about the cop.

Whatever it implies it doesn't stop with the police officer. Cops serve the same basic function as the ego, they mediate between the primitive drives and needs of society. I wonder what the implications are for a free society that produces bloodthirsty enforcers. I think that in some way we are all a product of our environment as much as we are also influencers of it. Cops just get stuck in the middle of the worst of it. Their own imperitive for survival (not just avoiding death, but also quality of life) forces them to make some rather harsh adaptations.

I have an uncle who served for 2 tours of duty as a Recon Marine in Vietnam. He said that the first person he killed he felt afraid. He felt as if he had done something wrong, but it was either him or the other guy. One had to die. Then he said that he came to a point where he didn't feel anything any more. Then after killing several men he began to enjoy the experience. For some reason he kept coming out alive. It made him feel powerful. That was the adaptation he needed to survive and succeed in his environment. It's still a part of his personality to this day.

Individuals seem to point to the end of the line so often. It's always the gun, or the cop, or the criminal, or even society to blame. We destroy each other's lives with our own insecurities. Those who seek peace must be fearless, and that doesn't seem so common to me. As Frank Herbert says in his novel Dune, 'fear is the mind-killer'. Empathy is lost once we begin to fear. As a being that is the center of it's own perception of the universe it becomes tempting to brand it as one's own. As my Uncle recently told me when his wife, my Aunt, committed suicide, "My tears are all for myself". I think he is right. We push these problems as far away from ourselves as possible rather than suffer our own perceptions. That's the implication I get from it anyway. We distinguish ourselves from reality.