Time travel

  • #51
selfAdjoint
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That idea is wrong. If you got a spaceship up to near the speed of light and fired a projectile ahead at any speed less than light relative to the ship, the relativity law for addition of speeds would make the projectile travel at a speed less than light relative to all other observers. And less than the sum of the ship speed and projectile speed. If the ship shone a search light ahead it would move at the speed of light for all observers, including those on the ship, but the ship's speed would not be added.

In general adding speeds only works at low speeds like here on earth because the relativistic corrections are too small to observe.

BTW near the speed of light relative to what? There isn't any fixed point of view in the universe that you can refer to for a general case like that. For a spaceship it's reasonable to think that it started somewhere and accelerated up to its speed, so relative to its home base would be reasonable. But not all observers see the same thing. Another ship, traveling alongside at the same speed would see your projectile firing ship as standing still!
 
  • #52
In my unlearned opinion, Time Travel is impossible and will always be (confined?) in the realms of Science-Fiction and flights of imaginary fancy.

TT is like the Fermi Paradox concerning the existance (or not) of ETs. If Men from the future can travel backwards in time then they would surely be here by now. Of course, this doesn't take into account the possibility of multiple timelines!

Some points to consider against the likelihood of TT:

1. Fact - The Universe is continuously expanding. Theory - The connections between superstrings must be expanding accordingly.

The atomic structure of a Time Traveller from the future would be comprised of 'larger' superstrings. Therefore, his very appearance in an earlier (smaller superstring) era would create a shift in the universal equilibrium, with possible devastating results for all.

2. Fact - As space expands, the Solar System is continously moving - and pretty darned fast too! Any Time Traveller coming from even a few days into the future (let alone three decades as Titor claimed) would find himself stranded in space (unless his Time Vehicle is a spacecraft too - and not many Corvettes are!).

3. Fact - The Time Traveller is comprised of matter. Matter redistributed by consumption/absorption et cetera from other external sources (we are all made from starstuff!). This matter would exist in a different form prior to the Time Traveller eating it. This different form would exist in the Time Traveller's past (our present). Which means upon appearing in our time, identical atoms would suddenly exist in two places at once! Paradox! Our universe would suddenly contain MORE matter than it did a moment before. Since matter and energy are inter-transferable, this would destabilize the universal equilibrium, again with untold bad results.

4. Fact - Nature likes balance. Moving matter/energy through the timeline willy-nilly would go against the grain. Theory - No Creator in His right mind would allow it. I wouldn't!
 
  • #53
1,569
2
this is an argument stephen hawking mentions as well.

i'm not sure how old mankind is. in other words, i'm not sure how long homo sapiens have been around. and how long we've been using language, tools, etc...

but let's say that homo sapiens has been around since year x. i would guess that (2003 - x)>15000 but i'm not sure.

let's pretend, for a moment, that time travel, back and forward, is possible and it gets invented in the year 2003+y, y years from now. the set of times for which mankind will have existed by then is
[x, 2003+y] which is the same as [x,2003]∪[2003,2003+y]. the age of mankind by then will be 2003 - x + y. just for the sake of making a calculation, let's say that the probability of a time traveler coming from a year in [2003+y,∞) to any specific year in [x, 2003+y] is equally likely. to say it will be more likely to come in [1900,2003+y], for example, is to guess what time travelers would be more interested. although by that argument, it's also a guess that any time travelers would be interested in the interval
[x,2003+y] and not something before that. so let's for the moment pretend all years in [x,2003+y] are equally likely to receive visits from a time traveller in [2003+y,∞). then the probability that a time traveler will visit any particular year, decade, and century are given, respectively, by
P1=1/(2003 - x + y),
P10=10/(2003 - x + y),
P100=100/(2003 - x + y).

i think it's pretty safe to assume that 2003 - x > 15000 and y > 5. this gives upper bounds on P1, P10, and P100:
P1<1/15005&asymp;0.0000666445
P10<10/15005&asymp;0.000666445
P100<100/15005&asymp;0.00666445.

for example, the probability that a time traveler visits the 21st century is less than 0.007. and this was assuming y > 5, time travel is invented only 5 years from now. it could be that y>10000 which would lower the upper bounds.

however, this is only the probability that one time travler visits a time in the interval [x, 2003+y]. there could be, of course, a googleplex of time travelers coming from the interval [2003+y,&infin;) which would raise the odds of there being at least one visitor to a random year.

the probability of there being at least one is equivalent to there being 1 or 2 or 3 or ... time travelers. then the probability of there being at least one time traveler to any given century would be approximated by some infinite series:
P100(n&ge;1)=SUM[ (100/(2003 - x + y))n : n&ge;1]. this geometric series has sum 100/(1903 - x + y) if i did all the math right. this isn't hugely bigger than 100/(2003 - x + y) since the odds of n time travelers visiting a particular century get lower when n gets larger. assuming 1903 - x > 14900 and y > 5, the probability that at least one time traveler comes in any particular century is at most 0.00670916. at most. now if y is much bigger than 5, in other words if time travel is invented more than 5 years from now, the upper bound lowers. if y>1000 then the new upper bound for the probability of at least one time traveler coming to any particular century is 0.00628931, about one-sixth as likely as getting blackjack in one game of 21.

therefore, the argument "why haven't they come yet" is not something that i put much stock in.

i was thinking about time travel and was wondering about the multiverse theory. perhaps a machine that transports one to a different sub-universe that exactly resembles the previous sub-universe except x years in the past or x years in the future. seems like this could resolve the grandfather paradox because you wouldn't be killing your grandfather, you'd be killing the grandfather of your copy in a different sub-universe. if this multiverse theory is correct and in some sub-universes there are machines that enable their users to cross into other sub-universes, and if there are infinitely many sub-universes, then the probability of one of them appearing in this universe is 0 (or is it?). on the other hand, some people think that other sub-universes are sometimes accessed through consciousness states rather than machines.
 
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  • #54
Odaiba
3. Fact - The Time Traveller is comprised of matter. Matter redistributed by consumption/absorption et cetera from other external sources (we are all made from starstuff!). This matter would exist in a different form prior to the Time Traveller eating it. This different form would exist in the Time Traveller's past (our present). Which means upon appearing in our time, identical atoms would suddenly exist in two places at once! Paradox! Our universe would suddenly contain MORE matter than it did a moment before. Since matter and energy are inter-transferable, this would destabilize the universal equilibrium, again with untold bad results.

I aggree to a point. even an atom element that would only travel back 1 millisecond in the center of space would cause an universe PARADOX. It has nothing to do with cause and effect rather than the stablity and rules of the universe. BUT, this is only in a perspective of a constant rate of the expanding universe. What if the Universe can flex like a ballon?(see my other post about the ballon theroy) That changes in time (going backwards only) pulls the universe inwards (negative growth) to the select time frame. The universe will start OVER based on that new reference (which I like to call a TIMEPOINT). So if any matter gets extracted from the current TIMEPOINT of the universe, that matter will pull the universe to its (backward) direction. This in turn will protect the rules of grow of the universe so no two identical atoms would share the same space.
 
  • #55
1,569
2
i was thinking about time travel and was wondering about the multiverse theory. perhaps a machine that transports one to a different sub-universe that exactly resembles the previous sub-universe except x years in the past or x years in the future. seems like this could resolve the grandfather paradox because you wouldn't be killing your grandfather, you'd be killing the grandfather of your copy in a different sub-universe. if this multiverse theory is correct and in some sub-universes there are machines that enable their users to cross into other sub-universes, and if there are infinitely many sub-universes, then the probability of one of them appearing in this universe is 0 (or is it?). on the other hand, some people think that other sub-universes are sometimes accessed through consciousness states rather than machines.
if atoms from sub-universe A enter sub-universe B (which is the same as universe A except thigns appear to be 10 years in the past), then it is not the case that there are two of the same atoms in sub-universe B.

even without the multiverse theory, why is it a big deal for an atom to be in two places at once? how do we know that there isn't really one electron in many places?
 
  • #56
Jug
Phoenix,

Sounds like a strap-on is required here....time being nothing more than a term for describing a specific relationship between mass, distance and velocity....no substance-no place.
 
  • #57
1,569
2
a hologram in which subuniverses and time are all stacked on one "location?" maybe there will be a way to skip to different aspects of it.
 
  • #58
1
0
I have a question. I read that gravity was measured to move at or close to the speed of light. If this is correct is it not possable that time travel may be a naturaly occuring phenomena if certain condition in environment are met? There seems to be many antidotal reports that would bear this out. Sorry if this had already been discused. I did not see it.

In referance to John Titon, by him coming back in time and telling us, has he not just changed the past? For all that was said by JT I find it amusing but nothing more. I believe the reason he gave for coming back was a Linix fix for computers from his time. Why did he choose that date when just a couple of weeks ago a patch was released to fix a bug. Another was the drawing of his time machine. From what I have read (memory little fuzzy on this) that is was a drawing of a 1960s military bomb shelter radiation detector.
 
  • #59
162
0
http://www.asc-alchemy.com/hudson.html [Broken]

David Hudsons Lectures: Intro



...My name is David Hudson. I'm a third generation native Phoenician
from
an old family in the Phoenix area. We are an old family. We are very
conservative. I come from an ultra-conservative right wing
background.
For those of you who have heard of the John Birch Society, Barry
Goldwater, these ultra right- wing Rush Limbaugh conservatives;
that's
the area that I come from. I'm not saying whether it is right or
wrong
but that is my background.

I had no concept that I would ever be doing what I'm doing right now
when I began this work...For more of David Hudsons Lectures,
click on link above.


I am not completely sure about Mr. Hudson's claims. I would have to see the
stuff for myself to believe it is legitimate, but in case it is, I
worked out a preliminary Lorentz contraction for 5th dimensional
coordinate transfer of gravitational mass based on the lectures
written above. Preliminarily, I would have to say that the stuff
would have to operate in a fifth dimension.


Anyways, I suppose that the gravitational mass of the ORME is
partially occupying a fifth dimension w, as the temperature
approaches some critical threshold, that the w approaches 1, as the
other four dimensions approach zero.



Pythagerean Theorum for point coordinate on a five dimensional unit
hypersphere.

a^2+b^2+c^2+d^2+e^2=1

In this case, let the fourth dimension be time, and the fifth
dimension be w.

According to the writings, the material appears to decrease it's
weight by increasing temperature. At some critically high
temperature, the material completely vanishes. When the high
temperature is lowered, the material re-materializes. I am not sure
exactly how this is done, because it is not fully described in
detail. It is my presumption, that if what they are saying is true,
that some of the material vanished not to be recovered, and some
method was constructed whereby they could re-acquire the material
after it had vanished using the specialized computer controlled
equipment.

Anyhow, here is the equation I worked out. Let me know what you
think.

(x^2+y^2+z^2+t^2+w^2)/g=1, where g is the total gravitational mass of
the material in arbitrary units.

Applying the lorentz transformations.

c^2(x-v(subx)t)+c^2(y-v(suby)t)+c^2(z-v(subz)t)+g^2(c^2t-v
(subx,suby,subz))+c^2(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2(C^2-T^2)^1/2
__________________________________________________________=1abu
c^2g(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2


Where v(subx) is the velocity component in the x direction, v(suby)
is the velocity in the y direction...and so forth.

c is the speed of light constant in the vacuum.


I define the dimension w, in terms of w/g, in units of dimension per
weight.


In the graph below, I use the y axis to represent units of w/g, and
the x axis to represent temperature. This I represent w/g, as being a
function of temperature T


Using arbitrary units, I allow a temperature of one arbitrary unit to
represent the temperature at which the weight of the mass of the
material involved is one hundred percent occupying the w dimension
equal to one arbitrary unit in length, and zero percent occupying the
dimensions x,y,z,and t.

Since the temperature axis, and the w/g axis are at right angles to
each other, I am able to use the pythagerean theorum to deduce that
the square of one arbitrary unit temperature T^2 plus the square of
one arbitrary unit of firth dimension divided by one arbirary unit of
weight, (w/g)^2 is equal to the square of some diagonal formed by
these two orthogonal measures C^2

Thus,

(w/g)^2+T^2=C^2

To solve for the dimension w/g, I simply perform some algebra...

w/g=(C^2-T^2)^1/2=1 arbitrary unit. I replaced the w/g dimension with
(C^2-T^2)^1/2 in the five dimensional lorentz equation written above.
I am not sure how accurate any of this is, but feel free to let me
know. :)



(Continued in next Post)
 
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  • #60
162
0
(Continued from last post)

Perhaps, one of the best uses for ORME's, Orbitally Rearranged Monatomic Elements, is experimentation on spatial distortion and creating 5 dimensional circuits. In the theory represented, this substance exists in 5 dimensions, not four dimensions. Apparently, the degree to which this substance occupies each dimension is a function of temperature. At some temperature, the material completely vanishes into the fifth dimension entirely. It is possible, also, that the mass occupies the region of space that is depicted by information contained on the, manifold S^2, surface of a light field. There are multiple compact decomposable spaces, both right, and left-handed, that are depicted by the information contained about them as the image contained on the surface of a light field. Unions formed via orthorotation forms indecomposable continua, more specifically, Knaster continua. What one might not recognize up front, when analyzing a light field, is that there are two sides to our two dimensional light field: the back side of the light field, and the forward edge of the light field. Thus there is a right-handed image, and a left-handed image, which is information about a right-handed space, and a left-handed space. Mathematically speaking, this space may be imaginary in nature. The pythagerean theorum is such that if one has a third imaginary spatial dimension orthogonal to two real spatial dimensions, the diagonal lengths between the imaginary dimension and the two real number dimensions may be any number less then one.

Diagonal length<1

This forms the double open interval (-infinity,1).

I may have worked out a rough draft of the equation that defines the dimensional transfer using the Lorentz light cone.

If one uses the pythagerean theorum to define the other dimensions, then it is easy to convert the algebraic expression over to the Lorentz light cone model to define orthorotation of this particular substance as a function of both temperature, and velocity with respect to the speed of light. It is a little more complicated, in that, as the substance's gravitational mass orthorotates into the fifth dimension, the ORME's gravitational mass orthorotates out of all the other 4 dimensions x, y, z, t. In the case of Relativity, a given inertial mass orthorotates, between the three spatial dimensions, and a fourth temperal dimension, depending on the masses velocity with respect to the speed of light in a vaccuum. In this case, our substance's gravitational mass, which is equal to our substance's intertial mass, orthorotates out of 4 dimensions, into a fifth dimension based on temperature. It is assumed by myself, that, given the concept is legitimate, an increase in the substance's velocity would result in orthorotation of the substance into a fourth temperal dimension. The substance would rotate on on all five dimensional axes. If the substance's velocity remains the same, the object will rotate out of four dimensions x,y,z,t, and into the fifth dimension. In case the object is accelerating toward the speed of light, the object's gravitional, and inertial masses, will orthorotate out of three dimensions, and may continue to rotate into the fourth temperal dimension and fifth dimension. It may be that the mass continues to rotate on two axes: the fourth dimensional temperal axis, and the fifth dimensional axis while the velocity is less then the speed of light.
In this case, if the steady increase in the velocity of the object is carefully calibrated to the orthorotation of the objects gravitational mass, then the overall intertial mass of the object, as it approaches the speed of light, may remain unchanged as it's increased intertial mass, due to increased velocity, is orthorotated into a fifth dimension. In other words, the intertial mass gained in the lower dimensions x,y,z,t, is decreased in those lower dimensions by an equal amount by orthorotating the gained intertial mass into a fifth dimension by appropriately synchronizing the increase in temperature of the ORME with the ORME's increased velocity with respect to the speed of light, thus causing the intertial mass of the ORME to remain the same in the lower four dimensions for as long as the velocity is less then the speed of light, and the temperature of the ORME is below the critical transition threshold. The only thing is, at the speed of light, the temperature would have to overcome the temperal rotation, and allow the object to orthorotate completely out of the other four dimensions, into the fifth dimension, to prevent the gravitational mass, and intertial mass, from approaching infinity in the lower dimensions x,y,z,t. I assume that the rate of flow of electromagnetic energy would be greatest at the point of complete transition, orthorotation, between the four lowest dimensions x,y,z,t, and the higher dimension w, afterwhich, I believe the term radiant energy would no longer sufficiently describe the substance as the integration of radiant power with respect to time is a little hard when the object no longer resides within the dimension time.


Interesting indeed.

I am further researching to find out exactly how hot the monatomic elements have to get before their entire hamiltonian is transfered completely into the fifth dimension. There is a simple circuit formed by the junction of two dissimilar metals at right angles. When a current is applied to the circuit, the corner at one junction gets extremely cold, while the corner of the other junction gets extremely hot. Suppose that one adds to the circuit two small containers that contain ORME's on to both ends of the circuits. When a current is applied, the end that gets extremely cold will cause an increase in the curvature of space time, while the end that gets hot will cause a decrease in curvature in space time. Suppose that circuit has alternating current applied to it. One forms alternating hot, cold, hot, cold, to either end resulting in altnernating curvature of space. Infact, the motion is truly defined by two gravitational masses bobbing in and out of a fifth dimension near each other. Thus we have five dimensional affects propogating out from these transmitters as a five dimensional wave. Now if one can increase the temperature enough to completely transfer the masses to another dimension, without destroying the circuit, and then pull them back entirely into this dimension, one might form a five dimensional square wave: an infinite number of five dimensional harmonics. One may be able to create a five dimensional transciever that is resonate to one of the higher harmonics, similar to the way that a tesla coil antenna is set to be resonate at one of the higher harmonics produced by the spark-gap in the RC circuit. Then one will be able to create a high frequency five dimensional resonate circuit, RC circuit.

Recently, experimental evidence was uncovered that showed that gravity is anisotropic in nature. It is possible, that if the configuration of ORME's particles defines what dimension the intertial and gravitational masses of the object occupies may imply a local anisotropic gravitational affects with a self-similar five dimensional global transform, thus yielding a five-dimensional manifold. Applying the Aharonov-Bohm affect, and including spider wave phenomonon: infinite torus model of genus one, we can include the point at,+/-infinity=infinity, for the set of all possible velocities, thus forming a compact closed decomposable continuum: a differentiable compactified partial manifold for the set of all numerical velocities ranging from -infinity to positive infinity as a subset of the five-dimensional manifold. What do you think?

Inquisitively,

Edwin G. Schasteen
 
  • #61
Why
12
0
Why Time Travel Is a Fallacy.

Observable knowledge - why time travel is an illusion.
( I am in no way trying to be 'spiritual' or 'metaphysical' here. These observations are based on my experience of reality and I'll try to express them in as clear and simplistic terms as I can - thanks)

What we call the 'moment' is existence.
Everything happens 'here'.
There is no existence outside of the moment.
The moment has no beginning or ending, it is eternity.
The whole, our collective essence/substance, cannot be outside of itself - it is all there is).

Our primal essence or 'stuff 'is active.
It is always moving and always changing.....parts of 'us' move in repetitive patterns and appear as form/matter.
In totality, each movement or expression of energy(us) is different as all of us are always active and moving in slightly different ways. The more complex our movements get the more impossible it becomes for an 'exact' duplication.

Their is no existence outside of our whole, collective field.
What we call the past is no longer in existence or real it is just our memory or image of part of the movements of the whole(only our memory is in eternity...the 'now'). it is not 'stored' anywhere as there is no other place 'to be' besides existence.
The future is not real either but is our image of part of the movement of everything to happen in the only place that is real - existence - the moment.

In summation, all there is is our total expression right NOW.
Former expressions of all the 'stuff' in the universe/multiverses are not stored anywhere...there's nowhere else but 'now'.
In fact we can simplify more by stating in reality the moment is our body and is always moving within itself.
Our experience and focus as humans and a mind experiencing a subject-object experience fools us into believing there can be something outside of ourself.

As far as multiple universes, dimensions, etc. I see no problem with that as it does not violate the reality of existence but is/can be another division of what is existing right now.
 

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