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To cause and to make?

  1. Dec 28, 2004 #1
    What's the difference between "to cause" and "to make" in this context:

    http://www.sfu.ca/philosophy/swartz/freewill1.htm#intro


    Thankx.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 28, 2004 #2

    loseyourname

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    Does logical fatalism really say that the truth of a proposition causes its manifestation in reality? I think Schwarz might be arguing a straw-man here.
     
  4. Dec 29, 2004 #3
    He's saying that a proposition makes an event true today because it has happened, but he says it does not cause it to be true. I don't see the difference between making and causing something to occur. :confused:
     
  5. Dec 29, 2004 #4

    loseyourname

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    I still don't follow his reasoning. A proposition is only a statement. Stating something to be true doesn't make it true. The truth of a statement is determined through empirical investigation.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2004 #5
    He makes a clearer example following the aforementioned one:
    does that make sense?
     
  7. Dec 29, 2004 #6

    loseyourname

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    Sure. He's saying exactly what I'm saying - that making a true statement does not cause the event the statement is describing to occur. I don't know of anyone who says that it does. This is where my question comes in. What position exactly is he arguing against?
     
  8. Dec 29, 2004 #7
    He is confusing an instance of a proposition with the proposition itself.
     
  9. Dec 29, 2004 #8
    The aforementioned quotes are excerpts from his essay which deals with free will. He is arguing free will exists. The quotes I posted are a part of the basis on which he is arguing that the future is not forced and thus there is free will, basically. He has other arguments but that's the basic idea.
     
  10. Dec 29, 2004 #9

    loseyourname

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    Stating a proposition doesn't cause an event to occur.
    Therefore, the future is not determined.

    I hope his other arguments are better, because that aint one to send home to mother.
     
  11. Dec 29, 2004 #10
    His other arguments are okay.
     
  12. Dec 29, 2004 #11
    His argument is incorrect. He argues that stating a proposition which happens to be true does not cause the event which the proposition represents to happen. What he NEEDS to argue, to support his thesis, is that the proposition ITSELF which is true--independent of any statement of it--does not determine (whether by causation or not) the event which it represents.
     
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