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News To what are we entitled and why?

  1. Mar 4, 2005 #1
    To what are we entitled and why?
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 4, 2005 #2

    Absolutely nothing.

    If you don't earn it, you don't deserve it. Period.

    Well, i suppose except for your life in the first place.
  4. Mar 4, 2005 #3
    Do you mean rights or things ingeneral?
  5. Mar 4, 2005 #4

    I can relate to that. However I am an American and I'm used to have rights.
  6. Mar 5, 2005 #5

    You are NOT entitled to those rights. You have those rights only because people have fought and died for them. I really hope you don't actually believe that you deserve those rights inherently, independent of the sacrifices of others have made for your sake.

    I am an American, and unlike some of the more 'european' members of my country(i mean this in terms of world view) i know that i only have the priveleges i have because of the sacrifices of those who fought and died for them. And that is the only reason. I am not entitled to those rights. We have those privileges only for as long as we are willing to fight and earn them.
  7. Mar 5, 2005 #6
    :tongue2: I had had no idea of the American sense of entitlement until I watched an episode of American Idol. At least one of the contestants seemed to think just because she made it to the semi-final, she would automatically make it to the final. Both she and her mother believe that she is every bit as good as other finalists, IRRESPECTIVE of the judges' verdict. I think the show should actually be called "America's Messed Up People" :rofl: .
  8. Mar 5, 2005 #7


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    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    franz, rights, by definition are entitlements. That's a little different from the concept that "freedom ain't free."
  9. Mar 5, 2005 #8


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    I agree. Everyone is entitled to those most basic human rights (yes, by definition...lol).
  10. Mar 5, 2005 #9

    I don't consider them rights, i consider them privileges. Privileges whose only conditions are being alive, and being ready to always defend and fight for them.

    To consider them entitlements is to breed the very attitude we don't want to encourage. The attitude that people deserve things from their government just because. Which they don't.

    Remember, if you give a mouse a cookie....

    The 'American Attitude' of entitlement is absolutely disgusting. Personally, i'm ashamed to be from the same solar system as some people.
  11. Mar 5, 2005 #10

    I know why I have those rights! Believe me I know more about the sacrifice that too many soldiers have made to keep those rights intact. I never said I was entitled to those right. I said i was used to having them. Do not put words in my mouth. I never said I was entitled to anything.

    I know far too well about the sacrifies made to have them. I have too many people who are near and dear to me fighting to keep them. If I had my way, they wouldn't be. But we need to fight for them. I'm planning on serving time to earn those rights myself.

    You don't deserve them more than I do.
  12. Mar 5, 2005 #11
    I very much agree with Moonbear and Russ. Following your pattern of though Franz, was what my previous post was addressing.

    Basic human rights are those listed in the Bill of Rights. No one ever said that rights were going to be free. Everyone has to make sacrifices to earn them.

    What have you sacrificed?
  13. Mar 5, 2005 #12
    Everyone deserves things from their government "just because" it's their government. Its sole purpose is to enable its citizens to have what they need.
  14. Mar 5, 2005 #13
    Hear Hear! I will completely agree with that. :smile:
  15. Mar 5, 2005 #14
    You are entitled to certain human rights, though we can expect to have to fight to get them or preserve them. I don't think your current goverment is doing much for human rights, to put it mildly.
  16. Mar 5, 2005 #15
    42, could you expand you idea a little bit more? That way I know exaclty what your position is and I don't misintrepret it for something else.
  17. Mar 5, 2005 #16
    Ones that come to mind immediately are freedom of speech, and torture in Camp Delta.
  18. Mar 5, 2005 #17


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    That's a really sad attitude franz. There is a big difference between a right and a priviledge. A priviledge is something like being given a driver's license after you demonstrate you are safe to handle a motor vehicle, a right is something like not being thrown in prison for the rest of your life when you've done nothing wrong. And yes, I do very much want to encourage the belief that these are entitlements, which they are, lest someone come along and think they can be so easily taken away! It is because of this feeling and knowledge of entitlement that we will fight to maintain these rights. People don't sit back and allow them to be casually taken away, as well they shouldn't. As soon as you say they are a priviledge, it implies it is okay to take them away.

    Indeed, the U.S. stands today because people fought to secure these "inalienable rights."

    Recall the wording of the Declaration of Independence:
  19. Mar 5, 2005 #18
    I agree 100% with the spirit of this, but never trust an argument that starts off with 'self-evident truths' e.g. 'It is self-evident that the sun revolves about the Earth, as it manifestly rises in the east, circles overhead, and descends in the west'.
  20. Mar 5, 2005 #19


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    I agree that in the US people think they are entitled to things they aren't, but it seems like you're worried about a "slippery slope". Too late for that, though. Its already the modern liberal idea that entitlements are rights.

    Anyway, the key difference is rights are not something given, but rather something not taken. That's while the Bill of Rights says things like "shall not be infringed". So, the right to life means no one is allowed to kill you - but it does not mean that the government is required to provide health care for you to keep you alive.
    That idea originated (or maybe just got big) with Marx, and it isn't what western democracies are based on. Western democracies are based on protection of you (of your rights), not providing for you. Trying to mix the two (as modern liberals are doing) is extremely dangerous and harmful to a democracy. We are risking going down the path of the USSR - and I don't mean Stalin's murders, I mean the culture of mediocrity that goes hand-in-hand with the culture of entitlement.

    I realize that social democracy works reasonably well for Europe, but it will not work for the US. We'll lose what has made us the world's economic superpower: economic freedom. Doubling (tripling?) our taxes, even though you get much of the money back through entitlements , would have an absolutely smothering effect on the US's entrepreneurial spirit.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2005
  21. Mar 5, 2005 #20
    Very well put point Moonbear.

    These rights are something that are guarnteed to you at birth. No one can take them away from you. The fact that people have spilled their blood and lost their lives on foreign and domestic soil falls under Freedom has a high price. You don't need to "earn" those rights. They are something that is endowed upon you. What you do with those rights is your business. Many people have made HUGE differences in the world with those rights...Martin Luther King Jr, Rosa Parks, Jackie Robinson, JFK, the list is highly extensive. You make sacrifices for those rights all the time without realizing it.
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