Today we are all Egyptians

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,260
303
I had to chime in for a moment to say how profoundly proud and moved I am by the brave, noble, and peaceful efforts of our brothers and sisters in Egypt. You have shown the world what is possible when good people unite in a just cause. You have many challenging days ahead, but already you, the people of Tunisia, and a fruit vendor who set himself on fire, have changed the world at [near] light speed.

While our [the US] government may not have always made the right choices in the past, you can be sure that the American people stand with you. The free people of the world stand with you. Today, we are all Egyptians.

Each time a person stands up for an ideal,
or acts to improve the lot of others...
he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope,
and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring,
those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.
Robert F. Kennedy (1925 - 1968)

We have the other thread to discuss the politics of the situation, but it seemed appropriate to take special note of today's historic events.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
drizzle
Gold Member
366
57
IVAN!!! Finaaallllyyyyy!!!! :biggrin:
 
  • #3
Evo
Mentor
23,187
2,977
We haven't seen what the results will be, it might be a huge disaster.

I will reserve my opinion on if this was a good or bad thing until we see the outcome in the coming year or two.
 
  • #4
41
5
While I applaud the citizens for standing up in unity and going against the wishes of their government (dictatorship). I think a more important concern is how President Mubarak has been able to stay in power for so long (i.e. how the United States government is partially/fully(?) responsible for Mubarak's presidential tenure).
 
  • #5
Math Is Hard
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
4,527
28
We haven't seen what the results will be, it might be a huge disaster.

I will reserve my opinion on if this was a good or bad thing until we see the outcome in the coming year or two.

Same here. You know what they say about the devil you don't know vs. the devil you do.

I was just chatting with my Egyptian co-worker. Happily, her family are safe. All but one of her relatives have left the country.

She isn't celebrating about the news today. She's concerned and sees this as very precarious time.
 
  • #6
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,260
303
This is a revolution! All revolutions involve risk. As I said, many challenging days lie ahead. But that doesn't take away from fact that this is a clear victory for freedom and the people of Egypt.

Savor the moment! It doesn't get any better than this.
 
  • #7
TheodoreLogan
I am also happy to see the people of Egypt stand up for themselves. It really is a great thing. Now we have to do the same thing in the U.S.:biggrin:. I just hope that they don't get suckered into another dictatorship. Namely a church state run by radical islamic warlords. I also hope they don't give in to U.S. influence....

While I applaud the citizens for standing up in unity and going against the wishes of their government (dictatorship). I think a more important concern is how President Mubarak has been able to stay in power for so long (i.e. how the United States government is partially/fully(?) responsible for Mubarak's presidential tenure).

Yeah, exactly... Good luck Egypt! I think that everyone would like to see them succeed, for the good of mankind.
 
  • #8
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,260
303
All that was required to change the world was 25 days or so, the ability to communicate freely, and the will of the Egyptian people. Less what would normally be inconsequential diplomatic pressure, the US had nothing to do with it. Only Egypt could [or can] change Egypt.
 
  • #9
lisab
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
1,887
617
While I applaud the citizens for standing up in unity and going against the wishes of their government (dictatorship). I think a more important concern is how President Mubarak has been able to stay in power for so long (i.e. how the United States government is partially/fully(?) responsible for Mubarak's presidential tenure).

If you see a big, bad American boogey man behind every problem in your life, it makes it very easy to simply throw up your hands and say, "Woe is me, there is nothing that can be done to change my situation!"

Good thing the Egyptians didn't take that attitude.
 
  • #10
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
50
Now, we find out if the Supreme Council can be an honest caretaker, and peacefully hand over power to fairly-elected officials in a new government. Power and wealth are quite seductive, so none of that is going to come easy, with all the machinations that can occur in back-rooms. I sincerely hope that the military leadership will resist simply installing yet another kleptocracy, like the Mubarak family and their cronies. The Egyptian people deserve better.

One bright spot for me was seeing live shots on Al Jazeera of Coptic Christians guarding their Muslim brethern while they prayed. The commentator explained that Muslims guarded the churches of the Copts from attack while they were at prayer, too. If the demonstrators have any say in the makeup of their new government, it is less likely that the outcome will be a radical theocracy than Western media are suggesting. Cautiously hopeful, here.
 
  • #11
100
1
i wish them the best and hope our government can offer positive support
 
  • #12
918
16
If I'm an Egyptian, then how come Obama is still President?
 
  • #13
lisab
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
1,887
617
If I'm an Egyptian, then how come Obama is still President?

:rofl: *facepalm* :rofl:...you crack me up, Jimmy...!
 
  • #14
Borek
Mentor
28,676
3,168
I wish them best, but as of today I am still a skeptic Pole.

In a way it sounds like a bad joke - people forced their president to resign, to democratize the country power was moved to the army.
 
  • #15
cobalt124
Gold Member
50
32
I feel optimistic too. As political upheavals go this one has gone well so far. I suppose its down to how much the military can be trusted, which looking at them so far, they can either be trusted or they are playing a very shrewd game.
 
  • #16
2,685
22
In a way it sounds like a bad joke - people forced their president to resign, to democratize the country power was moved to the army.

That's exactly what I thought.

I remain firmly with Borek and Evo on this one. Very skeptical.

They're a few steps from being under martial law. If things go wrong now they could be in even more trouble.
 
  • #17
arildno
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
9,970
134
L'ancien regime egyptienne has given itself ample time&stability to stage sufficient disturbances in order to justify their continued hegemony..
 
  • #18
Pythagorean
Gold Member
4,214
272
Evo and MIH; two people I won't let in on my plans for revolt.
 
  • #19
18
1
Celebrate the resignation of a cruel tyrant.

Hold your breath as the country gathers itself together.
 
  • #20
BobG
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
185
82
The positive is that the recent events were largely driven by the middle class. The Muslim Brotherhood and more liberal factions kind of jumped on the bandwagon and still have to appeal to the middle class to really gain from the situation.

That tempers a lot of what could happen during an overthrow. While anything could happen, I think the odds of total chaos are lower than the usual overthrow of government.

The Muslim Brotherhood is probably the most powerful civilian political group, but I think they'll at least have to tone down any idea of establishing some kind of religious theocracy to get into power (what happens years down the road is anyone's guess). Otherwise, the MB would just wind up being the reason for continued military rule.

I'd say Mubarak falling out of power creates some positive possibilities (in other words, I'm not quite a skeptic), but it's still too early to guess whether this will turn out good or bad.

OT: Anyone else bugged by the title of this thread? Somehow, it just reminds me of that Bangle's song.
 
  • #21
Gokul43201
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,051
18
Same here. You know what they say about the devil you don't know vs. the devil you do.
Such an argument could also be made about taking out Saddam and having the Iraqis pick their own leader. Or rescuing North Korea from the Kim dynasty. Or letting the Iranians stand up against Ahmadinejad and Khamenei. And in general, such an argument demands that corruption and tyranny ought to never be acted upon, 'cause at least that's a devil you know. Either we accept that a democracy is a better thing than a dictatorship, no matter how pretty or unsavory the results turn out, or we stop all the BS about spreading freedom and democracy around the world.

We constantly elect devils we don't know to replace devils we do, in the US. Why shouldn't the Egyptians feel good about attempting the same?
 
Last edited:
  • #22
mathwonk
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
2020 Award
11,139
1,331
I also feel this is a really great day. It reminds me of the civil rights and anti war demonstrations of the 60's in the US. I also agree it may turn sour. But if it does, that should be a lesson to the US about the eventual results of supporting an evil and greedy dictator.

E.g. we hear a lot about how crazy the Iranian government is, but how often do we reflect that we supported the shah whose rule finally led to the present problem there?

Today was inevitable for Egypt, but we seem to have long ignored this to some extent. Knowing better now, perhaps we will learn to make wiser long term decisions, and less temporarily expedient ones in our future relations with other peoples. The unlikeliness of us learning our lesson is to me a greater reason to be skeptical, than the future of this so far promising looking and still relatively peaceful revolution in Egypt.

I make no long term predictions, but today I am far more proud of the Egyptian people than of the longtime behavior of the US government in Egypt, and I celebrate with the peaceful revolutionaries at least for today.
 
  • #23
dlgoff
Science Advisor
Gold Member
3,967
1,946
I had to chime in for a moment to say how profoundly proud and moved I am by the brave, noble, and peaceful efforts of our brothers and sisters in Egypt. You have shown the world what is possible when good people unite in a just cause. You have many challenging days ahead, but already you, the people of Tunisia, and a fruit vendor who set himself on fire, have changed the world at [near] light speed.

While our [the US] government may not have always made the right choices in the past, you can be sure that the American people stand with you. The free people of the world stand with you. Today, we are all Egyptians.seemed appropriate to take special note of today's historic events.

If you see a big, bad American boogey man behind every problem in your life, it makes it very easy to simply throw up your hands and say, "Woe is me, there is nothing that can be done to change my situation!"

Remember the '60s and '70s? My CPA told me yesterday that the U.S. population should do the same thing. :surprised
 
  • #24
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
50
I wish them best, but as of today I am still a skeptic Pole.

In a way it sounds like a bad joke - people forced their president to resign, to democratize the country power was moved to the army.
Actually, the country has been under military dictatorship (of a variety of stripes) for all of my life. There are two+ generations of Egyptians who have known nothing else. If the military can provide stability during the transition and will allow fair democratic reforms, Egypt will be all the better for it. There needs to be "sunlight" during this period, and we don't know how far that will extend. Surely, allowing citizens unimpeded access to the Internet and social networks can help keep the powers-in-charge more honest.

There are reforms that should be undertaken ASAP, IMO, including revising the business-model of state media (propaganda outlets) and reformation of the state police. The stories coming out of state media badly misrepresented the actions of the protesters, and the police force and their hired thugs took a big toll on the protesters.
 
  • #25
arildno
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
9,970
134
Such an argument could also be made about taking out Saddam and having the Iraqis pick their own leader. Or rescuing North Korea from the Kim dynasty. Or letting the Iranians stand up against Ahmadinejad and Khamenei. And in general, such an argument demands that corruption and tyranny ought to never be acted upon, 'cause at least that's a devil you know. Either we accept that a democracy is a better thing than a dictatorship, no matter how pretty or unsavory the results turn out, or we stop all the BS about spreading freedom and democracy around the world.
Oclocracy isn't democracy, Gokul, and an authoritarian regime might be marginally less bad than an oclocracy.
Having regular elections and an elite respecting the power shifts those indicate do not necessarily yield a Rechtsstaat (pakistan and bangladesh are typical oclocratic societies, with harsh repression of religious minorities&women, for example)
 

Related Threads on Today we are all Egyptians

  • Last Post
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
30
Views
4K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
Top