Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Twisted Space ?

  1. Sep 30, 2010 #1
    There is a basic mis-match in the way GR and QM picture space.
    In GR, space bends to produce mass and gravity. In QM, space is a nuetral background for the actions of particles and force fields.
    Most recent work attempts to extend the QM/QED/QCD model to explain gravity.
    The opposite approach would be to extend GR to incorporate different modes of distortion of space, similar to the way in which solid bodies can undergo bending moment, shear and torque as well as simple tension and compression.
    In particular, some form of twist in space might be used to model the effect of charge. Twists in opposite directions could be labelled positive and negative charges. Opposite charges would tend to unravel, pull together and cancel each other out. Like charges would repel, in both cases relieving the local stresses.
    Although I have a preferred model to explain this, at this stage I would like some feedback on the general principle. It offers the promise of an overlap between GR and QM and a simpler explanation of a wide range of measurable effects.
    I am aware that such an approach is not conventional but I am looking for ways to tie it back to established physics.
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 30, 2010 #2


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I really can't comment upon your "twisted space" concept. All that I know, as a non-scientist, is that Einstein bailed out on trying to reconcile GR an QM. If he couldn't do it, I'm not about to try.
  4. Oct 13, 2010 #3
    A simple two dimensional representation would be to twist a stretched rubber membrane to create a stress. A clockwise twist might be labelled a positive charge and an anti-clockwise one would be a negative charge.
    If locked in some way, this would be like the stored energy in the twisted ropes powering a Roman ballista, much greater than a simple linear extension of the same rope.
    One aspect of twisted strands is that they become shortened. The ends of a piece of string looped around your finger are closer together than when the string is in a straight line.
    When looping an elastic band around your finger and pulling it back to the same extension, there is an additional tension in the elastic.
    In the case of a twist of the fabric of space itself, there will be a small radial tension in addition to the stress relating to the angle of distortion at any point.
    The radial effect can be modelled as gravity and the angled displacement can be modelled as an electric field. All charged particles have a mass but many masses are neutral.
    While being well short of a theory of everything, this approach holds out the carrot of linking mass and charge in a fairly simple model without the need for gravitons or virtual photons.
    One way of testing the idea of space being able to twist in some way would be to aim a whirlpool at a double slit and see what kind of interference pattern results.
  5. Oct 13, 2010 #4


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Please click the "Rules" link at the top of any page here, and read the section on Overly Speculative Posts.
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook