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Type 1,2, & 3 Civilizations

  1. Jun 18, 2004 #1
    In Dr. Michio Kaku's excellent book entitled, "Hyperspace", he discusses about three kinds of civilizations:

    Type 1, 2, & 3 Civilizations

    A Type I civilization would be able to manipulate truly planetary energies. They might, for example, control or modify their weather. They would have the power to manipulate planetary phenomena, such as hurricanes, which can release the energy of hundreds of hydrogen bombs. Perhaps volcanoes or even earthquakes may be altered by such a civilization.

    A Type II civilization may resemble the Federation of Planets seen on the TV program Star Trek (which is capable of igniting stars and has colonized a tiny fraction of the near-by stars in the galaxy). A Type II civilization might be able to manipulate the power of solar flares.

    A Type III civilization may resemble the Borg, or perhaps the Empire found in the Star Wars saga. They have colonized the galaxy itself, extracting energy from hundreds of billions of stars.

    By contrast, we are a Type 0 civilization, which extracts its energy from dead plants (oil and coal). Growing at the average rate of about 3% per year, however, one may calculate that our own civilization may attain Type I status in about 100-200 years, Type II status in a few thousand years, and Type III status in about 100,000 to a million years. These time scales are insignificant when compared with the universe itself.

    On this scale, one may now rank the different propulsion systems available to different types of civilizations:

    Type 0
    Chemical rockets
    Ionic engines
    Fission power
    EM propulsion (rail guns)

    Type I
    Ram-jet fusion engines
    Photonic drive

    Type II
    Antimatter drive
    Von Neumann nano probes

    Type III
    Planck energy propulsion

    If a civilization could reach Type 3, does that mean that they could manipulate matter at the atomic scale, thus, breaking such things as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?

  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 19, 2004 #2
    That would be speculation at best, for us to debate that would be pointless. If you ever incounter a Type 3 being, ask him if they have. Not all Type 3 civilizations would technically have to be on the same exact level of technology as another Type 3 civilization. If they have master Planck energy, well it's not hard to believe its not.
  4. Jun 19, 2004 #3

    If such a civilization could master Planck energy, does that mean that they have done the same with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?

  5. Jun 19, 2004 #4


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    I don't know what you mean about the uncertainty principle. Do you mean they could evade it?
  6. Jun 19, 2004 #5

    Yes, either evading it or breaking it. What are your thoughts?

  7. Jun 23, 2004 #6
    In answer to Whitestars' statement.

    Evade it, because uncertainty will have been defined as it has in probability diagrams, in regards to orbitals. In this case, classical discription have been unified with isomomorphic realizations in the quantum world, so there would be no need for uncertainty. Set your sails for the wild deep space yonder?

    Having such a Unity Theory acceptance in that civilization, the realization of travel in space becomes self evident, especially watching these global(cosmo) events unfoldng becuase of Qm characteristcs? They had to begin from someplace and end up someplace. In a such a cyclical nature, you end up back where you began, as the energy, just moved through these dimensions and you operate in all of them? :smile:

    Definitely wild speculations, but what's a guy to do if such correlations have remove schrodinger from the immediacy of any action. There is no "time" to ask the question, if the cat is alive or dead?
  8. Jun 23, 2004 #7


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    We know that both Einstein's and Schroedinger's beliefs toward the close of their lives were that "the physics of the future" would ultimately do away with both the uncertainty principle (which destroys classical realism) and the probability interpretation of the quantum state (which maims classical causality).

    So far the physics of 50 years after their deaths doesn't seem to be doing that, but wild speculation should include the outside possibility that they were right.
  9. Jun 23, 2004 #8
    Isn't this the way though , "to encapsulate(like the move to M Theory), and what has been the way of our forbearers, in paradignmal shifts in perception? :smile: Some engage http://www.physics.gla.ac.uk/gwg/geodynamics.html [Broken] to include all that has been thought of in M? :smile:

    That we could have define such lines of realization in speculation, we have defined the line that we must cross? If we are to accept this model of continued performance, what realization of "cultural shift," should have ever been adopted?
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