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News U.S. Soldier Found Guilty of Deserting Iraq Unit

  1. May 22, 2004 #1
    Sure. Penalise the guy for refusing to take part in illegal actions.
  2. jcsd
  3. May 22, 2004 #2


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    I thought he was being penalized for deserting?

    And I wonder what happens if he tried to do something about it instead of running away?
  4. May 22, 2004 #3
    In our military, soldiers have the right to refuse to obey illegal orders. That includes "go over there and be a part of these activities". Not sure about in the US though.
  5. May 22, 2004 #4


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    In our military they do as well, but they need to follow certain procedures. This includes not only orders they deem to be "illegal" but also exclusion based on moral or religious reasons. Again, they can't just "run away" they need to follow the proper procedures to do so.
  6. May 22, 2004 #5
    Wow, a democratic military. Just think, the massacre of all those brave Australian troops could have been avoided at Galipoli, if they had just raised their hands and said, "we ain't goin".
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2004
  7. May 22, 2004 #6
    In WW1, Australia pretty much saw itself as England Junior. Our troops were under the command of the British, and that was seen as rather normal, since we'd all been British only a few years before. Basically, our troops were operating under British rule.
  8. May 22, 2004 #7
    So your saying it was the British' fault, and the British were you
  9. May 22, 2004 #8
    At the time, there was a wholle lot of stupidity and BS from Australia, England, and lots of others.
  10. May 22, 2004 #9
    Does anyone here post news of the good things that have been happening in Iraq?

    Or are we just going to focus on everything that is negative and wrong?
  11. May 22, 2004 #10
  12. May 22, 2004 #11
    Proof that its illegal?
  13. May 22, 2004 #12
    Once again, studentx, sit back and read some more. We've been through it all before.

    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  14. May 22, 2004 #13


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    agreed, but what a dilema to be in...having your country's military dictate that you go against being honorable.
  15. May 22, 2004 #14
    Adam i suggest you read your own thread again. It is YOUR OPINION that the war is illegal.
  16. May 22, 2004 #15


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    I could just about see you grudgingly admitting that the United States had a right to declare war on Japan after the Pearl Harbor attack. But Roosevelt also used that occasion to declare war on the European Axis nations, which did not play any direct role in Pearl Harbor. Your thoughts?

    Also, if you have commented on the September 11 attacks, I have not seen your posts. What were your thoughts on that? I would call the perpetrators terrorists, but do you prefer the term 'martyrs'?
  17. May 22, 2004 #16
    Please read the laws provided again. It has nothing to do with my personal opinion. The law is the law.
  18. May 22, 2004 #17
    Start a thread about it.

    Start a thread about that too, if you wish.
  19. May 22, 2004 #18
    Adam, I'm pretty impressed that you seems to know a lot about the US laws even though you are not from the US...

    "It's an illegal invasion which killed thousands of civilians. What's good about it?"

    So I guess the images of thousands of Iraqis cheering when the US pulled down Saddam's statue in Baghdad in April did not mean anything ? If the invasion is not so good than what are the Iraqi people happy about ? I'm talking about the Iraqi people who live in Iraq, not anyone else sitting in his/her comfortable house somewhere else outside Iraq telling others whether the war was just/necessary/legal or not... Given 60% of Iraqi are Shiite, in addition to Kurds and Chaldean and all of these people were oppressed... and Saddam's government was comprised of mainly minority Sunni...

    I beg people didn't spend the same amount of effort talking about whether the war was legal or not when Saddam invaded Kuwait in the 90s :) And interestingly enough when saddam was around, the issues of innocent Iraqi being jailed, tortured, executed weren't brought up and made headlines like now. To sum up, from USA Today, according to recent poll :"The poll shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak". I don't think the Iraqis speak for themselves, we don't need to sit here and judge subjectively about the war.
  20. May 22, 2004 #19
    It's one of my many magical talents, the ability to read.

    Heck, if I had lived under Saddam Hussein, I'd be glad he was gone too! However, that doesn't change the fact that the invasion was illegal, the occupation is illegal, and a LOT of people have died.

    A lot of them aren't happy about it.

    The Kurds were bothered more by the Turks than by Saddam.

    That invasion was clearly illegal. As was this one.

    Yeah it was. People were always talking about Saddam and his sons being nutters.

    I don't judge subjectively. The law is black and white. It does not require subjective judgement.
  21. May 22, 2004 #20
    "Heck, if I had lived under Saddam Hussein, I'd be glad he was gone too! However, that doesn't change the fact that the invasion was illegal, the occupation is illegal, and a LOT of people have died"

    "I don't judge subjectively. The law is black and white"

    I agree that a lot of people have died. Also note that we at least know who died and how they died; under Saddam, the whole village could dissapear and nobody would know anything about it.

    Actually the law is not black and white, all of us should know this, most of the lawyers should be out of work right now if there isn't somethong called "gray area"
    And speaking of the law, I don't think the common Iraqis don't know about the law like we do just simply because they never have a chance to know. Again, I think we need a lot of lawyers to argue whether the war was legal or not. Examples of the reasons for the war might be : the right of the US to defend itself, saddam wasn't a truly elected leader, etc... However, the fact is the Iraqi and the world are a lot better with no Saddam is clear.
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