# Ufo

## Ufology

4 vote(s)
36.4%

5 vote(s)
45.5%
3. ### Too early to comment.

2 vote(s)
18.2%
1. Nov 21, 2003

### benzun_1999

Ufo...........

Are UFOS's real???

-Benzun
All For God.

2. Nov 21, 2003

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Re: Ufo...........

You may want to define what you mean by UFO.

Do you mean alien spacecraft?

3. Nov 21, 2003

### benzun_1999

Re: Re: Ufo...........

Yes i mean alien spacecrafts.

4. Nov 21, 2003

### Jonathan

Yes, the poll could've been worded better, because you technically asked: Do you think unidentified flying objects exist? Which is obviously true, given that if I see anything in the sky and can't tell what it is, I have proven it true, even though I might figure it out as the thing gets closer.
But as to aliens specifically, I think that if we start from the fewest possible assumptions and work our way through, statisticallly they must exist. Now it is statistically unlikely that they'd visit, except that most people don't realize that things can seem to move faster than light, given the known existence of loop holes in our theories that our theoretically exploitable. Those loop holes are not easy to take advantage of though. If one assumes that they can move faster than light, then it becomes massively more likely for them to visit. If there is lots of life out there, then they will be close enough to visit easily, accidentally even. If there is few, then it is also likely, because then those with the capability will activly search for the rare life forms, and would be able to do so much quicker than you'd think if they can blink in and out of existence as many have claimed and as I have seen on video that is known not to be hoaxed.
One comes to mind where (in Britian?) someone was video tapping their outting to a crop circle and they were buzzed by an unmarked military helcopter which eventually became distracted by a small, floating orb nearby that was literally flickering in and out of existence. In one 'scene', the helicopter is just feet away from this thing. This proves that it was really there as the occupants where interested and it proves that there really is some secret org/gov't with unmarked helicopters. I don't think it was a hoax because I don't think it is legal to own an unmarked helicopter, and it would be quite a sophisticated hoax to hide the markings, show an orb, and get the helicopter there in the first place. And it was obvious that the helicopter wasn't just put in the video either (which would make only the background real).

5. Nov 21, 2003

### wolram

UFOs certainly exist i have witnessed several, unfortunatly
they were not controled by aliens, they have rational
explanations.
unless new theories are found C is still the limiting
factor for space travel, so unless these aliens have
a very long life span or the craft are uninhabited
probes then no.

6. Nov 21, 2003

### einsteinian77

I believe ufo's to be real but not carrying aliens. I personally think that the majority of ufo's are human military crafts being tested in the skies. A lot of the new aircrafts being developed today and in the past have looked like something from another world.

7. Nov 21, 2003

### Phobos

Staff Emeritus
my opinion...
High probability of life elsewhere in the universe. Lower, yet still good probability for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Very, very low probability of aliens visiting Earth. UFO sightings are mistakes, misunderstandings, delusions, false memories, and hoaxes.

8. Nov 22, 2003

### Jonathan

wolfram, you apparently have not heard of the known loopholes in relativity. I have posted before as some will remember, that if one could somehow manage to move the 'bubble' of spacetime you are in with you as you move, then it is possible to move faster than light and make amazing maneuvers without getiing crushed. It is because it is really not you that is moving, it is the bubble of spacetime you are in. Relative to the immediate surrounding spacetime bubble, you aren't moving, and yet outside observers see you doing all sorts of stuff. The problem is in figuring out how to move a section of space with you as you go.
And then there is the more obvious answer that maybe they can control the creation (and even movements) of wormholes, but I assume you all know about that.
There are many more, one could probably write a whole book on it.

9. Nov 22, 2003

### einsteinian77

Wolfram, there is also a possibility of technology that could stretch the fabric of space-time or manipulate gravity waves in someway that would allow spacetime to be used for travelling immense distances in short periods of relativistic time.

Last edited: Nov 22, 2003
10. Nov 22, 2003

### Nereid

Staff Emeritus
Science and technology speculations

What evidence is there that, in the first hundred years or so of the Renaissance, any natural philosopher had an inkling of things like X-rays, neutrinos, and black holes?

Ditto, in the first millenium AD among intelligent and observant Chinese court officials? Their Arabic equivalents?

While I'm the first to admit that extrapolations of science and technology, beyond ~3 to 5 generations, is strongly contraindicated, I humbly submit that we have no idea what any intelligent aliens may have developed, nor any but the flimsiest ways of guessing. About the only exception would be if, by some extraordinary coincidence, such aliens just happened to be at a comparable level of scientific understanding as us today.

Why? The timescales are just too great. A million years is <1% of the time it takes the Sun (and us) to go once around the Milky Way, yet it's ~10,000 times as long as the period we've known about relativity, QM, etc.

You don't think so? Then try this: what is the 'neutrino' discovery of the 33rd century? the 12345th century?

11. Nov 22, 2003

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Unless and until the limits of technology can be identified absolutely, meaning that a complete description of nature is given by physics, in closed form, we really can't speculate as to the likelyhood of a visiting alien [ET]. To demand that ET is unlikely is to demand that physics is nearly complete. I think this lies at the core of the dispute here. If not, then on what basis can we demand that ET is not likely to visit? If we look to history for legends of unearthly visitors, well...

12. Nov 23, 2003

### Jonathan

You mean we can't accurately or meaningfully speculate as to the technology of aliens. Of course we could go on and on about this, probably envoking the known fact that $$\frac{\pi-e}{\sqrt{2}}$$ angels can dance on the head of a pin. (This is my first attempt at LaTeX!)
FYI Ivan, if you haven't noticed, the scientific community has been convinced that it is on the verdge of knowing everything for probably two hundred years. Therefore we know that aliens don't exist.

Last edited: Nov 23, 2003
13. Nov 25, 2003

### wolram

i would be first in line for a >c space flight, my
hopes are that we will find a way.
who knows what will happen in 2000YRs time, maybe
we wont be around.
as for worm holes, rotating black holes, well im also
a follower of sci fi.

14. Nov 25, 2003

### J/Psi

i think that it is extremely unlikely that ufos are of alien/extraterrestrial origin

crop circles, of course, are another matter

15. Nov 25, 2003

### einsteinian77

Johnathan,, what the heck is e-pi/rad2 angels on the head of a pin mean?

16. Nov 26, 2003

### Nereid

Staff Emeritus
Maybe meta-UFOs do exist (NOT)

What if UFOs are excited, meta-stable configurations of dark matter, far from thermodynamic equilibrium? They manifest themselves as 'Eureka' thoughts in the minds of particularly creative individuals of human, dolphin, and mouse species. They do this via an unusual interaction mechanism involving very particular configurations of C, H, O, N atoms.

17. Nov 27, 2003

### Jonathan

wolfram: I bet we won't exist.
einsteinian77: (pi-e)/sqrt(2) is just a gobble-d-gook number I made up (I don't know that it has any use, ut who knows, maybe I've stumbed onto something here). As to the angels on a pin, I think it is common knowledge that those stupid religious scholars and philosophers of old would argue (probably for years, those fools), about things as irrelevant, arbitrary, and speculatory as 'How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?' (I doubt this is actually true, it's probably just a well known joke at the expense of those philosophers etc. who waste their time so much.)
Nereid: So they're physiopsychological hallucenations? No way, that would mean that Mulder was wasting his life!

18. Nov 27, 2003

### wolram

wouldnt it be cool if us humans were the prime
mover in the galaxy, able to warp around from
planet to planet in days rather than YRs
able to teraform planets in a matter of minuets,
able to go back in time etc, etc.
the reality is we have traveled to the moon

apart from some doddgy goverment experiments
with remote viewing, there is little to suggest
we have the capacity for mental travel.
i have traveled "hypotheticaly" to 2014 and wittnessed the
scientific upheaval that new discoveries have
caused, maybe this could be a giant leap for man,
i mean the first time we actualy know something
about our universe, then again it could be a
massive setback.
so until we know something about our universe
anything is possible.

19. Nov 28, 2003

### benzun_1999

I accept that. we dont know anything. We dont kow where we are? What are we made up of? And so on..
By the way everything we know is just a result of what our brain thinks.