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UFOs don't exist.

  1. Jan 22, 2004 #1
    Predictability: Does the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings in Brazil set off a Tornado in Texas?

    Perhaps, the report of Mr. Keneth Arnold's June 24, 1947 sighting was the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings which set off the flying saucer phenomenon.

    Or more precisely, misquotation/misinterpretation of the sighting was the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings

    The initial report was likely to have been misquoted/misinterpreted.

    Is this scary or silly or what
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 22, 2004 #2
    Your thread title should be: Flying Saucers Don't Exist.
    Arnold did see U.F.O.s.
  4. Jan 22, 2004 #3


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    I find the artical itself slightly suspect. In the picture provided, the caption reads "This is a photo of a model of the strange disks Arnold said he saw over the Cascades June 1947".

    So they're saying that Arnold said he saw "disks". But the rest of the artical reads that Arnold never said he saw disks. Pretty vague reporting.
  5. Jan 22, 2004 #4
    This is the point, apparently. The notions of saucers came from Arnold's description of the way they moved, like saucers skipping over water, not from the shape he saw.
  6. Jan 23, 2004 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    This is all well known to the UFO crowd.


    My take has always been that at twenty to twenty five miles, Arnold was guessing at the shape...the key feature really being that he saw no tail. From the official report:


    Note also that his drawings in the official report are a far cry from the photo shown.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2004
  7. Jan 23, 2004 #6
    Thanks for the link, Ivan.

    You wrote: "Note also that his drawings in the official report are a far cry from the photo shown."

    The caption says the photo is from Kenneth's 1952 book. Is it possible that he was corrupted by the interest following his first report and got carried away in fabricating the story about his sighting?

    Anyway, debunkers.com may need to be debunked. I don't know.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2004
  8. Jan 23, 2004 #7
    Bit off topic

    I do know, however, that when the Butterfly flapped it's wings in China (1949) it created a hurricane in Cuba (1959).

    I should shut up now!!!

  9. Jan 23, 2004 #8


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    Yet according to the artical, he said he saw "disks", disks that moved like saucers.
  10. Jan 23, 2004 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    I suspect this happens a lot even with initially credible witnesses. Also, maybe fabricating is not the right word...embellishing? I think this adds tremendously to the confusion around this subject. We find truths surrounded by exaggerations and/or unintentional misinformation. Also, when pressed for details, people will unintentionally create them based on personal biases, where none may have actually been observed. For example, Arnold was a pilot so in his mind he made flying wings out of the UFOs.
  11. Jan 23, 2004 #10
    I see what you mean. In his own account he calls them "saucer-like discs" The drawings he himself made are more "saucerlike", but not actually round discs. So the "debunking" article is flawed in saying Arnold never actually reported "saucers".
  12. Jan 24, 2004 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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    Chalk up one for the UFO nuts.
  13. Jan 24, 2004 #12
    So, what's the score? Skeptics: 10,000 :: UFO nuts: 1? Clearly the start of an impressive turnaround for the nuts!
  14. Jan 24, 2004 #13

    Ivan Seeking

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    Only if one picks the easy targets...a favorite trick of the debunkers!

    Of course in this case it would seem that they chose to lie.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2004
  15. Jan 24, 2004 #14
  16. Jan 26, 2004 #15
    "Give it up!"

    "Resistance is futile."

  17. Jan 26, 2004 #16
    James Easton has written some extremely interesting material suggesting that what Arnold actually saw was a flock of American White Pelicans, the largest birds in North America.
    afriad i couldn't find any of the "extremely interesting material"--saw photo's of
    "Pelicans"--and they don't look anything like UFOs!

    have read 'explanation' countering Arnold's 'miscalculations' as to 'speed' and distance of the 'objects' ---actually a fair argument IMO--(not sure where to find it)

    But--re "flying saucers"--a rose is a rose---call it what you want--'flying discs' were being reported before Arnold's sighting--and these were 'military sightings', not bird-watchers...
    on 2/28/47 at Lake Meade,NV (and again 6/28 an F-51 pilot saw formation of circular objects-edit at Lake Meade); a number of these discs 'formations' were reported in Canada.....it's interesting to think about,'why did Arnold's sighting get such widespread attention?'--because the military sightings weren't being reported, and Arnold is first public 'credible witness'?

    anyway, Capt. Ruppelt coined the "unidentified flying object=UFO" to escape all the 'baggage'

    Major Keyhoe out right screams 'Flying saucers are here'-'let's call a spade a spade' and end the coverup......
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2004
  18. Jan 26, 2004 #17
    Re: "Give it up!"

    If all aliens were reported to look like 7 of 9 I think every skeptic would hang up an "I Want To Believe" poster.
  19. Jan 26, 2004 #18
    few thoughts on Arnold case:
    when you get down to it-it's just a 'boy and his dog' tale....
    (it's his story against Shaeffers)

    what are you gonna do-give him a lie-detector test?

    And then he goes on to investigate the "Maury Island Incident"
    for Ray Palmer (seriously...) , yet with his buddy the commercial
    air-line pilot.

    Things get really wierd-they outta make a movie-
    two Air Force guys show up and collect "samples"...
    the plane blows up......who's makin the phone calls??

    (years later, one of the 'chief' 'witnesses' interviewed by Arnold
    turns out to be an OSS operative-(Arno never knew this)
    a specialist in 'dis-information'---and later identified as one of
    the hoboes-in-the-train-yard at Dallas (see "Ocotopus" bk)....

    anyway,Arnold seems likeable enough, but goes on to be a 'reporter' for Palmer----fun stuff-imaginative--but WWNews for me

    curiously, there was a report from a 'rock-hound' in Colorodo mts. previous to all this with very similiar 'spew-ing out' metal 'slag' etc.

    (could have been Vallee-who's in-depth and always interesting....)

    also, i don't remember the 'boom-a-rang' description.....never read Arnold's book or articles---bottom line,this isn't truthfully as interesting as other 'events' happening then from military guys with some 'hard' evidence=
    ie. radar returns and multiple witnesses

    (or like that 7 of 9 'evidence'- i'm believing i'm coming around.....
  20. Jan 28, 2004 #19
    I've been wondering about this too. His report was not the first report of UFO sighting in modern times, it was the first to get the kind of world-wide attention it received.

  21. Jan 28, 2004 #20
    Re: Re: "Give it up!"

    And they wish to be abducted and subjected to all sorts of nasty physical examinations.
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