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News Uh Oh, this can't be good.

  1. Jun 13, 2009 #1
    It looks like the situation with North Korea is only going to get worse. Do you think we might be able to just wait for this country to collapse in on itself?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090613/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 13, 2009 #2
    While I have no love for the North Korean regime, I don't see why we have to harass them over nuclear testing. Seems to me we are just egging them on when we'd be better off to ignore them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2009
  4. Jun 13, 2009 #3
    Now that they are holding two Americans prisoner, we can't just ignore North Korea completely.
  5. Jun 13, 2009 #4
    I believe the average North Korean is 4 or 5 inches shorter that the average South Korean due to malnutrition. It took 50 years for the "people's republic" to achieve that. In another 200 years they will all be about two feet tall. No, I think "collapsing in on itself" will take too long.

    20 or 30 years ago there was a presidential Executive Order prohibiting assassination of foreign heads of state. My opinion of Obama will go way up if he rescinds this order. He wouldn't actually have to commit to going through with the act, or even mention North Korea. The very act of rescinding it might bring the North Koreans back to the bargaining table.

    cheers, skippy

    PS It might give the ayatollahs something to think about...ah, martyrdom.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  6. Jun 13, 2009 #5
    That didn't stop us from trying to assassinate Fidel Castro (not sure when our last attempt was, so I may be wrong). Even so, maybe lifting the order will be like placing a revolver on the negotiating table.
  7. Jun 13, 2009 #6
    I didn't mean to suggest ignoring them completely, rather just their nuclear testing. Again, at the moment I feel we are simply antagonising them further rather than accomplishing anything productive.
  8. Jun 13, 2009 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think we already tried that plan with Hitler.
  9. Jun 13, 2009 #8
    Care to elaborate? I don't see anything I've said here could be construed along the lines your analogy suggests. Also, please note my clarification I posted just before your reply.
  10. Jun 13, 2009 #9


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    Must have been when the CIA put grease on the stairs - you remember when he slipped and fell?
  11. Jun 13, 2009 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    He's a nut who cannot be ignored. Given his current posture without nuclear weapons, what do you think his position will be when he has them?
  12. Jun 13, 2009 #11
    He does have nuclear weapons, and regardless of how far he develops them he will still be the ineffectual little dictator who is bound to croak any year now, just the same as he is today.

    What benefit has hounding him about nuclear testing got us?
  13. Jun 13, 2009 #12


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    Well, surely if he uses his nuclear weapons he will not longer be an "ineffectual little dictator", no?
  14. Jun 13, 2009 #13
    What are you saying!? :eek:
    Are you aware that Kim Jung-il is a Physics Forum member?
  15. Jun 13, 2009 #14
    Of course not, he'd be toppled immediately, and dead shortly after, which is something for him to worry about himself rather than the rest of us and isn't likely to happen anyway.
  16. Jun 13, 2009 #15


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    At which point some tens or hundred of thousands would be dead in S. Korea, or Japan, whatever meets Dear Leaders fancy. And if he'd been allowed to get to that point, he'd probably also already have sold weapons to some other Dear Leader wannabe, and started nuclear weapons programs in other SE Asian countries Is that the threshold you suggest before any more 'antagonizing' action can be taken?
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  17. Jun 13, 2009 #16
    For once, America should use its military power for a good cause to scare off North Korea. All the UN seems to have done is scold North Korea in a very puny manner and urge it to come back to negotiations which is obviously has no intention of doing. What should be done is warn North Korea that if you explode another bomb, we will search every ship and block all ships from entering North Korea. If you continue down the same path or launch a war, we will respond with force and use all means necessary to ensure that you will never be a threat to world peace again. The message should be reiterated publicly by Obama and sent to North Korea.

    That should stop them for many a reason. Firstly, China will start seriously pressurizing North Korea to listen to America and return to the negotiating table. The last thing China wants is an American ally at its doorstep and it damn well would not go to war over Korea again. Secondly, it would finally penetrate those thick skulls of the North Korean military leadership that America really means business, no more mucking around and sucking up to them. North Korea seems to think it can dictate terms which it has been allowed to do for too long.
  18. Jun 13, 2009 #17
    Exactly, show them who's boss! You can't reason with this dictator
    with glasses of tea, files, and a table between one another, he's a maniac!
  19. Jun 13, 2009 #18
    Considering the danger to the world that nuclear arms represents would you not think that attempts to slow and stop proliferation and developement are preferable to none? Perhaps the tack that is currently being taken is ineffective and different avenues ought to be explored. But do you really think that we ought to stop trying all together? Perhaps better to try and still lose than to lose for having not tried enough?
  20. Jun 13, 2009 #19
    Sure, but again, I don't see hounding North Korea over its nuclear testing being productive to those ends.
  21. Jun 13, 2009 #20
    Ignoring them, as you seem to suggest, is?
  22. Jun 13, 2009 #21
    While having a pacifistic view to other crisis like Iran may serve a purpose, certainly it comes to nothing with regards to North Korea. North Korea is run by a dangerous unstable dictator who is ably supported by a military who gleefully wants to wage war against South Korea at the first opportunity. Once it acquires a few nuclear bombs, who knows how the regime will behave? I would not put it past them to nuke South Korea or even Japan over a petty excuse that one of its ships was searched or there was a minor confrontation on the border.

    You cannot expect North Korea to act rationally in a crisis and with a nuclear armed Korea, it becomes even more dangerous. It is clear that even China cannot control North Korea enough. We are talking about a country that sent a missile over Japan at one point. America, Japan and South Korea should start threatening North Korea with serious consequences if they continue down the same path. Now is a good time to threaten them because firstly, North Korea probably do not have a nuclear bomb yet and secondly, the delivery system for the nuke is crude and would probably blow up before launch. Mind you, no one is advocating war but merely threatening them with serious consequences. That way, we can still have a reluctant China on our side and hopefully scare off North Korea and humiliate it.
  23. Jun 13, 2009 #22
    Rather, at least it wouldn't be egging them on.
  24. Jun 13, 2009 #23
    When we had the good old Cold War, everyone had enough firepower to incinerate the planet. We also had MAD "mutually assured destruction" we knew it and the soviets knew it and it made the world a safer place to live.

    Now we have Iran and North Korea being run by irrational people. MAD means nothing to them. Ahmadinejad views the total destruction of Israel as paving the way for the return of the 12th iman.
    His predecessor Rafsanjani said that killing 5 million Jews might result in losses of 15 million Iranians but this would be a small sacrifice to pay for Muslims around the world. We know what is in their heads; we don't even know what makes Kim Jong-il tick. These people are much more dangerous than the USSR ever was.

  25. Jun 13, 2009 #24
    Eccentric people anyway, but I have no reason to suspect they don't respect the concept of MAD, and rather figure that understanding is exactly what motivates North Korea's current nuclear weapons program, and the one Iran was running previously.

    Can you substantiate these claims?
  26. Jun 13, 2009 #25
    You are suggesting that let them do whatever they want and we should better ignore them.

    So, when we should start taking them seriously?
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
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