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Uhhhh, in a word Nooooooo

  1. Apr 28, 2010 #1

    rhody

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/us/29spill.html" [Broken]

    Somehow, the thought of the Coast Guard trying this scares the crap out of me...

    I admit I tend to worry too much but this has the potential to go ohhh so wrong with many unintended consequences...

    Rhody... :eek: :uhh:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 28, 2010 #2
    I like the burn it idea actually at least it will stop a lot of it from reaching shore. Can't possibly go that bad imo. Iv always wondered why they don't normaly do this. Probably just cause nobodys done it.
     
  4. Apr 28, 2010 #3

    Borg

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    A few minutes ago one of my coworkers asked, "are you going to the Coast Guard Fish Fry?". We didn't realize what he was talking about right away.
     
  5. Apr 29, 2010 #4

    rhody

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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/26/crews-race-contain-oil-spill-rig-blast/"

    From the looks of the map in the story it doesn't look like the attempt at burning the oil is possible. I have a friend who used to work in the oil industry in the exploration and drilling areas long ago, I will check with him and get his take on this. If most of the tar like oil is on the bottom, the next question is, how long will mother nature in her infinite wisdom take to cover it up and stratify it in a new layer ?
    Rhody...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
  6. Apr 29, 2010 #5

    mgb_phys

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    It used to be the standard procedure (Torrey Canyon) but it only works for the oil on the surface (naturally) and creates a lot of other more toxic pollutants.
    Generally if the water is calm enough to be able to burn it, then it's calm enough to skim it which is the safest alternative.

    The main objection is probably that it creates huge clouds of dramatic and newsworthy smoke.
     
  7. May 2, 2010 #6

    rhody

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    Watching this whole saga unfold is rather depressing... and the attempts to recover, control it are almost comical.

    Rhody...
     
  8. May 2, 2010 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    A disaster in slow motion.
     
  9. May 16, 2010 #8

    rhody

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    All info presented below is eyewitness testimony, and as such is subject to scrutiny and investigation, and my possibly imperfect recollection of it. Feel free to correct, comment, and add clarification as needed.

    Just watched Frank Williams (Chief Elect Eng) testimony on Sixty Minutes on the doomed oil drilling platform, shades of disaster similar to the Space Shuttle, damaged O Ring in the preventer kept the pressure from being measured correctly, this happened a couple of weeks before the blowout, (sounds like the damage was caused by faulty procedures or human error). The second factor was the liquid then pump down with the drill was not done as is normal procedure (to save time), they were to cap and plug the well so another rig could be brought in to extract the oil, note: they were behind schedule and trying to make up time to keep loses from escalating

    Note: According to Frank Williams, there was disagreement as to who would direct the capping operation. The end result was in haste that the gas rose in the pipeline, got into the diesel engines on the rig, and explosion ensured. The rest is history.

    Again, similar to what happened to Columbia, drastic underestimation (Note: three different contractors were involved in managing the rig) of risk resulting in a catastrophic failure.

    Enough said... sigh, IMHO, we never seem to learn, keep repeating the same type of mistakes, this time it would seem in the interest of loss revenue.

    Rhody...
     
  10. May 16, 2010 #9

    russ_watters

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    I saw the piece. A good analysis of the situation. I find that most engineering disasters have the same hallmarks of complacancy-caused relaxation of safety standards combined with greed.
     
  11. May 16, 2010 #10
    It's so stupid how long it's taking us to figure this out. We've figured out brain surgery, touch screens, and self-butt-cleaning toilets, yet we can't plug a hole?

    *claps*
     
  12. May 17, 2010 #11

    rhody

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    russ,

    I like that quote, complete, to the point.
    Rhody...
     
  13. May 17, 2010 #12
  14. May 17, 2010 #13

    mgb_phys

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    "And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you."
    Obviously an act of God!
     
  15. May 17, 2010 #14
    Yes, if only the rest of the food chain wasn't taking it in the chops as well. Between that and the role of pigs in the incubation and mutation of influenza, I have people make that argument to me in earnest. My riposte is: "mmmm bacon."

    "Leviticus 25:23-24 - The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants. Throughout the country that you hold as a possession, you must provide for the redemption of the land"

    "Ezekial 34:2-4 - Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. "

    "Isaiah 24:4-6 - The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the exalted of the earth languish. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth's inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left."

    and this:

    "Psalms 104: 25-30 - There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number— living things both large and small. There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there. These all look to you to give them their food at the proper time. When you give it to them, they gather it up; when you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust. When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth."

    "Colossians 1:16-17 - For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things."
     
  16. May 17, 2010 #15

    mgb_phys

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    All these rules and yet the only one that apparently matters is the "don't be gay" one.
     
  17. May 17, 2010 #16
    People can be cruel, and stupid, and they do not seem to grasp the concept of "parable".

    Here is some humour along that line ;)

     
  18. May 17, 2010 #17

    mgb_phys

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    I love that - I always wanted to turn up an anti-gay rally and protest their (ie. the protesters) wearing of poly-cotton.

    Isn't there also one about forgiving all debts and mortgages every seven years?
     
  19. May 17, 2010 #18

    mheslep

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    "Humor Site I Have Forgotten". Obviously that's an extensive quote. How can you have forgotten the source?
     
  20. May 17, 2010 #19
    It is an old bit, and as it says, an open letter. I copy and pasted it to a text file of funny quotes, so it was out of context. Sorry!

    Mgb_phys: I know, people are so very selective in their fundamentalism.
     
  21. May 23, 2010 #20

    rhody

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    Now, here is an unlikely scenario: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2226640420100523?type=marketsNews"

    excerpt:
    If Iran were to assist with oil knowledge and technology to stop the spill, it would be one small positive step in establishing some kind of normal relations with them.

    Rhody...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
  22. May 23, 2010 #21

    lisab

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    I agree, but you can imagine how the right wing would go nuts on President Obama for allowing that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
  23. May 23, 2010 #22

    rhody

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    lisa,

    I agree 100%, I consider myself moderate conservative (cautious) by nature, however, this is one crisis where both sides and the extreme's in either one need to come together to brain storm a strategy that will work. In another thread I read of some of the top theoretical physicists are working on it too. We need all the help we can get from every credible source and country on the planet.

    Rhody...
     
  24. May 23, 2010 #23

    lisab

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    Yes, I'd very much like to see that too. Sometimes to advance a relationship (be it interpersonal or international) it's good to allow yourself to be helped, even if you don't really need it.

    In this case, I'm afraid we actually do need it. If the Iranians know techniques to stem the flow I'd love to have them seated the table.
     
  25. May 23, 2010 #24
    That would be an interesting diplomatic gesture, but considering the nuclear issue I'm not sure how it would work.
     
  26. May 23, 2010 #25

    Moonbear

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    The article really doesn't say it's a cure to the problem, just one approach to cleaning up some of the spill. You figure with something this big, it's going to take more than one approach all attacking it from different directions...burn off surface oil, something else for the stuff settling to the bottom, try to protect the coastline the best you can, work on stopping the leak, etc.

    Though, the interesting note of the article to me was that IF the private sector can't handle it, the defense dept. might get involved. Why are they waiting? Seriously, if they have some way they can help, supplies, equipment, know-how, people, etc., send them in to help now. They can bill BP for it later.

    What boggles my mind is that nobody ever considered this what-if scenario before to have an emergency plan in place to fix it quickly. Nobody ever thought it was possible you could get a leak or break in a line right down near the well itself? How is this surprising? If it can happen on land, surely it could happen undersea.
     
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