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UK sailors seized by Iranians

  1. Mar 23, 2007 #1

    J77

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    Messing with the Royal Navy... :eek:

    Did nobody tell the Iranians you don't do that!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 23, 2007 #2

    Art

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    If a British freighter was stopped and searched by the Iranians I doubt the British would be very happy either and so the Iranian reaction whilst politically naive is understandable. I've no doubt like last time the captives will be released in a few days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  4. Mar 23, 2007 #3
    Nice video clip. The Commodore is clam and collected, not some nonsense BS from fox news where everything would be hyped up.
     
  5. Mar 23, 2007 #4
    Interesting situation. Anyone have any predictions?
     
  6. Mar 23, 2007 #5

    Kurdt

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    Staff Emeritus
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    Well if they're not released I wouldn't rule out the SAS being deployed. But I'd assume that the Iranians would let them go pretty soon as diplomatic proceedings were started swiftly.

    All in all its a very unexpected move from Iran.
     
  7. Mar 23, 2007 #6
    I would agree with Kurdt special forces will be deployed if there is resistance, and it will all be low level without much mass media knowledge, and the political waves will be kept to a minimum.
     
  8. Mar 23, 2007 #7

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    The Iranian navy most certainly can and does stop merchant ships in Iranian territorial waters. It is a normal, everyday occurrence for hundreds of merchant ships, every day, all over the world. No, if a British freighter were stopped in Iranian waters for a routine inspection, it wouldn't even be noticed by anyone outside the shipping company.

    What happened here is likely that the British found what they were looking for (smuggled cars) and the Iranians were not happy about it.
     
  9. Mar 23, 2007 #8
    :rofl: Who he hell smuggles cars anyways...seriously. Number one kar in all of tehran, high five!

    Ive been there, they need to smuggle some good cars into the country, by the thousands. Its all crappy no-name Iranain brand junk and Hundai/Kia's.


    Hostages <==> New cars.

    I should be a diplomat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  10. Mar 23, 2007 #9

    Art

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    If you had followed the links in the OP you would find your conspiracy style speculation unnecessary as you would have heard the commander of HMS Cornwall himself say first the inspection had been completed prior to his men's detention and everything was in order and secondly an admission by him that although he believes they were operating in Iraqi waters he accepts that the borders are the subject of dispute and that to the Iranians it is their territorial waters.

    It was skirmishes over these borders on the Shatt al-Arab waterway that led to the Iraq/Iran war and so it is obviously something they feel very strongly about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  11. Mar 23, 2007 #10
    What does this have to do with anything? The fact that *all over the world* Merchant ships are bored and search has nothing to do with navy personal being taken captive.

    Why did you conclude this??? A link to this extra information you seem to have would be good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  12. Mar 23, 2007 #11

    Art

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    Personally I doubt it very much. Iran isn't Uganda. Unless the Brits have recruited muslim suicide jihadists to their ranks they are not going to try raiding Iran. :biggrin:

    Like 3 years ago when 8 UK service members were detained in similar circumstances I believe this will be settled diplomatically over the next few days or possibly weeks.
     
  13. Mar 23, 2007 #12
    Its only a raid if you get caught, and the special forces of the UK dont get caught. :smile:
     
  14. Mar 23, 2007 #13
    But they will be so obvious flying in on a rescue mission in their Airbus 380.

    Wait, Iran doesnt have an airfield to support that airplane....never mind. :rofl:
     
  15. Mar 23, 2007 #14
    wrong thread... :rolleyes:
     
  16. Mar 23, 2007 #15

    Art

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    I doubt very much the UK were actually looking for smuggled cars, more likely weapons.
    Under international law there are strict rules governing when flagged ships can be stopped and searched even in coastal waters (see Law of the Sea Convention, Art 19) The US who had a major hand in drafting this treaty never actually signed up to it themselves but the UK did and one of the few reasons ships can be stopped and searched is suspicion of smuggling contrabrand hence the "we were looking for smuggled cars" story.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  17. Mar 23, 2007 #16
    What I dont understand is that HMS Cornwall was supposedly very close to the action. Something doesnt add up here, that is a very heavily armed frigate.
     
  18. Mar 23, 2007 #17

    Art

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    The Airbus 380 will only be a diversion. Whilst the Iranian guards are rooted to the spot watching slack jawed in awe as it flys past the SAS will sneak in and grab the prisoners. :rofl:
     
  19. Mar 23, 2007 #18
    intelligence gathering for an operation like this would be vary, Vary hard if the iranians cared to prevent such an raid from being successful. holding the people in a military prison or anywhere not accessible to non-authorized personnel would limit intelligence gathering to virtually zero. to make a stab in the dark with vary little intel would mean a lot of risk for everyone.
     
  20. Mar 23, 2007 #19

    russ_watters

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    Ask Art - he brought it up, not me. I agree that it is irrelevant.
    It is just a guess. It could also be sabre rattling. I highly doubt it was simply a "tactical error" as the CO suggested, unless the Iranian who made the decision is reaallllly[b/] stupid (the British CO has to be politically savy, so it is understandable that he would say that). If there is a dispute over where you are wrt to territorial waters, the first thing you do is demand the other side withdraw. Simply capturing sailors is an open act of war, whether you think they are in your territorial waters or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  21. Mar 23, 2007 #20

    russ_watters

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    Et tu, Art - that's all your first post was.... :rolleyes:
    It does not say that in the link in the OP. Looking into it more, though, I see that yes, the inspection was finished and the Marines leaving when they were captured. In any case, that doesn't really change the central issue here (yes, I'm speculating on motive and it is just that: speculation) ....
    No:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

    Sovereign territory is sovereign territory. There is nothing unsual about the British Navy's actions nor the response to the unlawful siezing of her personnel here, contrary to your assertion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
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