Under God

  • #1

Answers and Replies

  • #2
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I agree with the ruling. Having the schools lead it is compelling the students to subscribe to the belief.

I, personally, am against compelling students to take an oath of any nature. But I guess I haven't a problem with returning the Pledge to it's secular pre-McCarthy form.
 
  • #3
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Why can't people just get over this? It's two stupid words you don't even have to recite. It's against my religion to even say the plegde but I'm not offended by it.
 
  • #4
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I'm not so sure schools need to be compelling student to pledge their allegiance to America even. But if they are going to make kids say it, then at least taking out the under god part is a good start...
 
  • #5
Pengwuino
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Yah I also agree with this ruling. Something about simply uttering the word "God" doesn't make sense when your pledging allegiance to a nation founded out of religious principles.... It's no wonder there are so many forced-conversion christians out there since our children have to say God once in a pledge they don't understand and don't care about and don't do half the time. Good thing the father made the kid lie to get his face into the news in the first place....

end sarcasm.
 
  • #6
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Just out of curiousity, how much money have we wasted because of this?
 
  • #7
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Pengwuino said:
Yah I also agree with this ruling. Something about simply uttering the word "God" doesn't make sense when your pledging allegiance to a nation founded out of religious principles.... It's no wonder there are so many forced-conversion christians out there since our children have to say God once in a pledge they don't understand and don't care about and don't do half the time. Good thing the father made the kid lie to get his face into the news in the first place....

end sarcasm.
The nation was founded under the idea of freedom of and from religion. To require students to swear to "One nation, under God" is a logical contradiction.

If it's "just two stupid words" why the big fuss?
 
  • #8
kyleb
Being a man of faith I was never bothered by the mention of God; but all the same, I aprecate the ruling out of respect for those who feel otherwise.

Pengwuino said:
a nation founded out of religious principles
I'm curious as to what you are referring to?
 
  • #9
JamesU
Gold Member
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I think it's resonable. People who do not want to believe in god- and want to raise their children the same way- is their choice. and they shouldn't be forced to say the same line every day, if it's against their beliefs
 
  • #10
The "under God" was added to the pledge long after the founding of our nation. Though "God" is a generic reference, I agree it should not be compulsory because many Americans are agnostic and of course some are atheist. People are getting tired of the religious right pushing their personal agenda, and pushing the envelope in regard to it, resulting in backlash that will become more intense if they keep it up.
 
  • #11
Pengwuino
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TRCSF said:
The nation was founded under the idea of freedom of and from religion. To require students to swear to "One nation, under God" is a logical contradiction.
The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion.

TRCSF said:
If it's "just two stupid words" why the big fuss?
Good point. Why must it be taken out if its just two stupid words. I mean aren't atheists suppose to be telling their kid "God doesn't exist"? What is this crap about forcing religion on someone? When my high school use to do these dumb radio-station deal things every friday or so playing all rap music, I didn't fly off the handle and run to buy the latest Nelly CD. I was forced to listen (why the hell would you put huge ass speakers next to a LIBRARY... ugh, im glad im outa there) to it but I didn't feel like rap was being forced on me. Same deal here. Its a word, not a mental-reprogramming.
 
  • #12
kyleb
TRCSF didn't suggest that it was just two stupid words, but rather simply pointed out that you did.
 
  • #13
Pengwuino
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kyleb said:
TRCSF didn't suggest that it was just two stupid words, but rather simply pointed out that you did.
I did?

more characters!!!
 
  • #14
kyleb
Well apparently that is the impression he got, hence the quotes to separate it as not being his own belief but something saw in your comments. I gathered the same from your sarcasm.
 
  • #15
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Pengwuino said:
The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion
WRONG!!!

Good point. Why must it be taken out if its just two stupid words. I mean aren't atheists suppose to be telling their kid "God doesn't exist"? What is this crap about forcing religion on someone? When my high school use to do these dumb radio-station deal things every friday or so playing all rap music, I didn't fly off the handle and run to buy the latest Nelly CD. I was forced to listen (why the hell would you put huge ass speakers next to a LIBRARY... ugh, im glad im outa there) to it but I didn't feel like rap was being forced on me. Same deal here. Its a word, not a mental-reprogramming.
Were you compelled to sing Nelly? Is Nelly a religious icon or deity? Did you mention your displeasure to the principle? Was a Nelly lyric added to the pledge as a means of combating communism?

Man alive, your argument is weak to say the least.
 
  • #16
kyleb
Oh, and I meant to address this earlier:
Pengwuino said:
The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion.
Freedom from imposed religion would be more correct, both in regard for our Founding Fathers rejection of the Church of England as well as the ruling on the pledge.
 
  • #17
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My kids are being taught and expected to sing "God Bless America" at their public school.

This is even more egregious to me than the "Under God" phrase.
 
  • #18
selfAdjoint
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pattylou said:
My kids are being taught and expected to sing "God Bless America" at their public school.

This is even more egregious to me than the "Under God" phrase.

Where do you live? Have you contacted the ACLU?
 
  • #19
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Pengwuino said:
The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion.



Good point. Why must it be taken out if its just two stupid words. I mean aren't atheists suppose to be telling their kid "God doesn't exist"? What is this crap about forcing religion on someone? When my high school use to do these dumb radio-station deal things every friday or so playing all rap music, I didn't fly off the handle and run to buy the latest Nelly CD. I was forced to listen (why the hell would you put huge ass speakers next to a LIBRARY... ugh, im glad im outa there) to it but I didn't feel like rap was being forced on me. Same deal here. Its a word, not a mental-reprogramming.
Catholicism?

Pengwuino, it would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you understood the basics of American history.
 
  • #20
288
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selfAdjoint said:
Where do you live? Have you contacted the ACLU?
I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.

I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?
 
  • #21
kyleb
TRCSF said:
Catholicism?

Pengwuino, it would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you understood the basics of American history.
The Church of England was Catholic at the time, not Roman Catholic, but Catholic all the same.
 
  • #22
464
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I don't believe the words should be in the plegde, let alone have any plegde whatsoever. I believe the question is: is it worth all the trouble to remove it? Aren't there more pressing matters we could invest our resources in?
 
  • #23
SOS2008
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Religious freedom is why many people came to America. Freedom to practice the religion of their choice, but also freedom from religion. It was not until 1942 that Congress wrote the Pledge into law, with the words "under God" added later in 1954. So obviously the founding fathers did not come up with this.
pattylou said:
I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.

I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?
Or Americans United for Separation of Church and State (go to the web site and you can contact them) These groups help with litigation of these cases. The Bible School is not compulsory, however, it should not be conducted on school property (with tax support). The promotional flyer is something parents (I'm sure you're not the only one) can complain to the school board about.

Entropy said:
I don't believe the words should be in the plegde, let alone have any plegde whatsoever. I believe the question is: is it worth all the trouble to remove it? Aren't there more pressing matters we could invest our resources in?
This same question was asked during the 2004 election and focus on banning gay marriage. It has become such a "shove it down your throat" environment that things like "God Bless America" bumper stickers have become offensive to me.
 
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  • #24
JamesU
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pattylou said:
I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.

I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?
I agree with this, while I believe in god, religeon should not be forced upon children. Definitely talk to the school board. maybe the superintendant, it could be something across the district! :eek:

I got a flyer in the mail the other day (was sent to all students at our school) to attend a catholic high school next year
 
  • #25
Skyhunter
SOS2008 said:
It has become such a "shove it down your throat" environment that things like "God Bless America" bumper stickers have become offensive to me.
Saying God Bless America is a violation of the commandment "Do not take the Lords name in Vain". Asking god to bless this nation over others is an act of vanity while invoking the lords name!
 

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