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Universal Consciousness?

  1. Jan 6, 2004 #1
    Anyone ever stop to think that the only thing that makes sense out of anything at all is consciousness? Hmm ... Perhaps our brains and bodies are merely receptacles, linked to this thing called Universal Consciousness?

    Think about it. How else could we ever possibly agree that 1 + 1 = 2? If in fact there weren't somehing inherently universal -- i.e., through consciousness -- about it?

    Yes, and what else might that possibly entail, except that we are all part of the one "Universal Mind."
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 6, 2004 #2
    Can I interject? Can I ask you to explain how
    In terms of how it 'makes sense' exactly.
  4. Jan 7, 2004 #3
    Well if we weren't conscious what exactly would that entail? How would we even know that we were here? In fact consciousness is really all we have if you think about it ...
  5. Jan 7, 2004 #4
    How can we answer this question if we seemingly have only experienced this particular type of 'consciousness '. There are no 'perceivable' other types of consciousness that I'm 'aware' of, to make comparisons to. I'm not disagreeing per say, and I posted here because I'm fascinated that science cannot completely remove 'consciousness ' from itself. But, since 'consciousness' is so under-explored, profound statements are difficult to make regarding it. I have a few theorys, (far from complete) on the possible origins of what we call awareness if you're interested in any further blatherings from me on it.

    This I can't agree that consciousness has anything to do with. It seems obvious to me that mathematics does not originate from humans or from consciousness. The fact that we 'agree' on it is purely incidental, coincidental, and inevitable.
    Perceivable, and in my opinion, worth studying.

    As an after thought, you still haven't stated how it 'makes sense'.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  6. Jan 7, 2004 #5
    I guess I don't feel the need to take it much further than this as it also entails religious experience. Perhaps this is where you fail to realize that different types of awareness are achievable (i.e., through meditation), which makes the idea of a Universal Mind (of God) much more plausible.

    Yes, but how is the Universe going to hold itself together without universal laws? (or truths). And by what means would these truths be accesible except by means of a universal way of acknowledging them -- i.e., through consciousness.

    And neither am I saying human consciousness is universal per se', except that it would "stem" from it.

    Yes, because consciousness has common ground with both science and religion, and may be the means by which to bridge the gap between the two.

    Well like I said, the fact that we can "perceive" anything at all.
  7. Jan 7, 2004 #6
    I still don't see what conciousness has to do with 'holding the universe together'. Respectfully, the universe has been holding its own with or without conciousness. Furthermore, accessing these 'truths' is neither here nor there, meaning, if there were NO concious beings in the universe, it, (in theory) would have no difficulty maintaining itself.
    I agree with this.
    I don't think I'm failing to realize this, only that to me the 'types' of conciousness you list are not really separate from the one we think we understand to some degree.
    (To expound on your original post) One last thing I'd like to add though is, we always seem to maintain that conciousness is unique and a special quality, and that it should be held in special regard because we believe it to be very rare. Why does this have to be so. Without a full understanding of it, how do we know that conciousness is rare, it may be the most abundant thing in our universe. I think its possible, the day we stop believing that conciousness is somehow a gift and special, that we may make leaps and bounds in our study of the universe.
    We are in the right forum for this train of thought.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  8. Jan 7, 2004 #7
    if we had no conciousness would there be truths? If there were no one around how could we have truths if there were no observer. the observer is our conscious right? Our conscious is it all because it all stemed from it. thoughts, ideas, beliefs, truths it all came from you your conscious.
  9. Jan 7, 2004 #8
    Yes, consciousness is the very "portal" of human experience. In fact the very portal of the whole "living experience."
  10. Jan 7, 2004 #9
    Truth as defined by Websters:
    n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)
    Conformity to fact or actuality.
    A statement proven to be or accepted as true.

    Is the formation of the universe an un-truth just because there were no concious beings there to observe it? We observed it after the fact. Is something as fundamental as the birth of a star an un-truth if no one is there to 'see' it? We observe it after the fact as well.
    True except when it comes to truth. Thoughts, ideas, and beliefs are related to conciousness. Truth or fact is not. Can I offer an analogy? Assume we are working on an experiment where the results may show an undeniable truth. Assume the experiment was a series of events that could literally 'finish itself' once set into motion. Now assume we were both killed before the experiment was finished, and it finished without aid or observation by us. Lets say the experiment was a success and showed an undeniable truth. Does it exist? Does it matter that we now can't observe it? Did it even happen? And please don't take me as argumentative, I'm not.
  11. Jan 7, 2004 #10
    Except that the only way to interpret it is through consciousness ...

    Well let's just say we had a radio station which we called the Great Mind, and through this Great Mind we broadcast our radio signals which, we happened to call the Great Truth.

    And let's say everybody had their own radio receivers which, we happened to call our Conscious Mind, by which everyone can to tune in to this Great Truth.

    Does that sound more plausible?
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  12. Jan 7, 2004 #11
    The only way WE can interpret it.
    Not bad. I'm getting close to seeing your point.
  13. Jan 7, 2004 #12
    Hope that you don't mind my interjecting a few thoughts of my own on this subject.
    Logic and math make extremely accurate models of and describe the real universe. We humans created math and logic in our minds and they are both completely abstract subjects that can be appled to the real material universe so successfully.
    Is this simply luck or coincidence? Or is it possible that our minds or consciousness are a part of the universal consciousness that created and maintains the universe using the same universal rules of logic and math. Not only then would we be able to understand it but it would be inevitable that we would think in the same way so that we all can understand it and even come up with it on our own.
    Our minds and consciousness are designed to, and do use the same processes as the universal mind/consciousness.
    Think about it. Why does 1+1=2? Why is it universally true and can never be false no matter what language we may speak or think in, or what culture or era that we live in? What does a universal truth mean if it does not imply a universal mind or consciousness?
  14. Jan 7, 2004 #13
    Wow, that almost makes it sound too easy! I still don't understand why people are so hard-pressed to argue about it?
  15. Jan 7, 2004 #14
    By the way Royce,

    I started a similar thread on the JREF Forums ... Universal Consciousness?

    By all means check it out, but I warn you, be prepared to argue! ... :wink:
  16. Jan 7, 2004 #15
    I hope this wasn't aimed at me... I just wanted to hear how conciousness 'made sense' to you.. :smile:
  17. Jan 7, 2004 #16
    No, if you follow the thread above you'll see what I'm talking about. :wink:
  18. Jan 8, 2004 #17
    is a barbie doll the same to every girl.
  19. Jan 9, 2004 #18
    by this i mean if you have two of the same things are they the same to each person. One might love it and play with it while one might rip it's head off. so 1+1=2 but really it's just two now, not 1+1. so combining whole to a whole equals a whole,just a new and different whole. right in mathmatics we combine wholes to form new whole #'s but in life things are seperate like two apples but yet thats why it plural because there are two seperations. what happens if we combine two silly puddies together to form one big silly puddie the two small ones (Plural) form one whole one. when looking at people hugging they were once seperate and now form together a hug. In life there a sense of seperation and togetherness. does 1+1= 2 I guess it depends on how you look at it.
  20. Jan 9, 2004 #19
    Well said.
  21. Jan 10, 2004 #20
    I agree, well said.
    However, when we speak of math, then it is universal and we all must accept that all and every '1' is the same or 1=1. By logic and definition we all must say and agree that 1+1=2 etc. By this method we developed our entire mathematical system that we can use to describe or model physical reality to an accuracy that is mind boggling. Science and Math says "what" and "how" but never addresses "why".
    "Why" is a philosophical question.
    As a philosophic person, the "Why is such an abstract system so universal and so accurate at modeling the physical universe?" is one of the primary questions a philosopher can ask. To me, it implies a universal oneness of which we are all part.

    Consider the history of science, math and logic. Even without the instruments and knowledge base that we have today the ancients using there minds only came up with universal truths that are just as valid and true today as they were then. They were so amazed and awed by these universal truths that these truths took on mystical and religious meaning. Maybe I am doing the same thing as the ancients; but, maybe they were right, too. Maybe, as I think and have said here, these universal truths do point to a God or universal consciousness or mind.
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