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Universal Law Idea

  1. Jun 24, 2014 #1
    So this may get long winded..

    All of existence, as being described by physics works on a principle of relativity - nothing is really there unless an observer is present to measure an event (Special relativity, general relativity, even relational quantum mechanics). Events are dependent on the frame of reference of the observer.

    The only "object" that seems to be frame of reference independent (at least in special relativity - not sure about general).. is a photon. Now - photons don't decay as they are massless (electrons are fundamental but just need a positron to get gone). They seem to be the only fundamental particle to stick around for ever, which because they are always at the speed of light is not a notion to them as the Lorentz factor doesn't allow for a numerical time value for them...

    Therefore, because within this universe (I know - not saying anything else is out there beyond the effects of the Big Bang, but it can't be discounted), permanence is caused by existing in an absolute frame of reference, could that be extrapolated to the whole of existence with:

    "Any concept, that cannot exists outside of a local frame of reference, is impermanent."

    Quantum mechanics already lacks the Law of cause and effect, the equations are time independent, so could our universe of cause and effect simply be the result of an inability of a subset of existence to be described within an absolute frame of reference?! It makes sense if you see Time as just a statistical anomaly...

    Alright, getting confused now... hope there is something there that made sense! :D
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 24, 2014 #2


    Staff: Mentor

    Welcome to PF!

    Your post borders on speculative science where you're bringing together facts you've heard and are trying to make sense of. In general, PF doesn't like to discuss speculative or personal theories as we focus on helping students who are learning STEM subjects and have questions related to what they learn.

    Perhaps if you read the forum rules it will make more sense and you can pose your thoughts as questions with the goal of learning more precisely what science is all about.

  4. Jun 24, 2014 #3


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    Not only is it long-winded, many of the concepts are also wrong.

    This is a common misconception of QM. QM says no such thing.

    You need to read and understand the concept of "realism" within the context of QM. It means that the various properties (observables) are present within a system, and a unique, single value is only obtained once a measurement of that observable is made. It has nothing to do with things "existing" or not!

    This is also wrong, but a lot! I can absorb photon VERY easily. I just put up a black piece of paper, and bam! A bunch of photons are gone! Vanished from existence!

    There is a reason why photon number is seldom conserved! It can easily go into other forms!

    Let's make sure you are aware of the following:

    1. Our PF Rules that you had agreed to explicitly prohibit this type of "discussion", i.e. extrapolating things one barely understands. We consider this to be highly speculative.

    2. Before you can apply all these concepts, it is imperative that you FIRST established the validity of your understanding. As you can see here, none of what you think you understood is correct.

    3. Extrapolating from faulty knowledge often results in nonsensical conclusion.

  5. Jun 24, 2014 #4
    QM I agree I don't understand, still trying to get my head around Ψ before there is a collapse of the wave function..

    As for photons - energy can neither be created nor destroyed etc... photon gets absorbed into particle, that particle will decay. At some point the bugger will come out again, different energy level maybe, but it's not gone.

    And yes, a little speculative, but then at the very least can someone tell me if a photon (or any particle with 0 mass) is frame independent.

  6. Jun 24, 2014 #5


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    Nope! When it is absorbed in a black paper, when does it come out again?

    The energy has been changed into heat/molecular vibrations. It is no longer in the form of a "photon". By the pedestrian language, it is GONE!

    Assuming you know what "frame independent" means, then from the postulate of Special Relativity, light always has a value of c in any inertial reference frame.

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