Universal warming.

[Jimmy Snyder]

Main Question or Discussion Point

Even if you accept AGW hook, line, and sinker, you still have to accept that there are other inputs to global temperatures. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html" [Broken]

 

[drankin]

Even if you accept AGW hook, line, and sinker, you still have to accept that there are other inputs to global temperatures. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html" [Broken]

It's worse than we thought! AWG is affecting the whole solar system!!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Awful Word Grouping?

 

[Gokul43201]

American Wire Gauge?

Anyway, this is old news, and mostly irrelevant to warming on earth. Incidentally, Jupiter was cooling in the 40s when the Earth was warming like crazy.

Jimmy, what is the point of this thread? It seems pretty obscure to me.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Jimmy, what is the point of this thread? It seems pretty obscure to me.

To point out that even if you accept AGW hook, line, and sinker, you still have to accept that there are other inputs to global temperatures.

 

[Gokul43201]

To point out that even if you accept AGW hook, line, and sinker, you still have to accept that there are other inputs to global temperatures.

That's like saying:

Even if you accept that people die by jumping off tall buildings (hook, line and sinker) you still have to accept that people die of hypothermia. Penguins die too.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is political?

Of course I guess Jupiter is a world, but actually we meant for this forum to focus on this particular world.

 

[Evo]

Yes, other planets in our solar system have been going through an unexplained warming period also. But it's not political, yet.

Moving to astronomy.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

That's like saying:

Even if you accept that people die by jumping off tall buildings (hook, line and sinker) you still have to accept that people die of hypothermia. Penguins die too.

No, its like saying that there are more inputs to GW than just A.

 

[cristo]

Unless members intend to discuss the climate change on Jupiter, this thread will be closed or, at best, moved to GD.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Unless members intend to discuss the climate change on Jupiter, this thread will be closed or, at best, moved to GD.

I think it should be moved to GD in any case.

 

[Gokul43201]

No, its like saying that there are more inputs to GW than just A.

Which is about as well understood as the observation that there are more ways of dying than just jumping off buildings.

Furthermore, just the observation that there is warming on Jupiter is not proof that there are inputs to warming on earth that are not anthropogenic. We know about these other inputs directly from studying the climate on Earth.

One could just as easily turn your "argument" on its head and assert that there are industrialized life forms on Jupiter because it too is warming.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are in fact all of the other planets getting warmer?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is my understanding that we know that the sun experiences various cycles that affect its energy output; and in particular that we have experienced a warming trend for about the last one-hundred years due to increased solar flux, this based the strength of the solar magnetic signature stored in rocks, which correlates to the solar energy output, but that this influence has been considered.

If the other planets are indeed warming, can it be attributed to the known solar flux variations? Also, given the difficulty in determining the average global temperature of this planet, what is the potential error in the measurements wrt other planets.

 

[Evo]

There are various reasons being looked at for causes of the warming.

For Pluto and Triton - http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html

For Mars - http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html and here http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070404_gw_mars.html

jimmy posted the link for Jupiter.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

So the evidence that Mars is warming is indirect evidence based on ice patterns that may or may not be indicative of global temperatures, and in fact dust storms are suspect. And Pluto's temperature change is likely due to the influence of volcanism and seasonal changes.

On Jupiter:

Marcus says the demise of still more spots over the next seven years will mark the end of a newly proposed, 70-year climate cycle.

Not to mention that

Another factor is that Jupiter generates much of its heat from within

As near as I can tell, this thread is completely pointless.

 

[Gokul43201]

There are various reasons being looked at for causes of the warming.

For Pluto and Triton - http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html

I think Pluto is being understood rather better than expected, given that we know very little from close range observation. Hopefully, that will change with the New Horizons mission expected to make Pluto-fall in 2015. Following analysis of data from the occultation in 2006, we know that the densification of Pluto's atmosphere has peaked and is now beginning a reversal, about 18 years after its perigee. There has been no measurable increase in density between the 2002 and the 2006 occultations. The delay from perigee of the peak in atmospheric density and temperature, is well-modeled by the thermal inertia of Pluto's highly dense atmosphere.

Seasonal changes in Pluto's climate are very slow and the trends are very different from Earth's because of the dominance of changes in irradiation by the large eccentricity of Pluto's orbit. These changes are not driven by the smaller than 0.1% variation in solar irradiance. Temperatures in the upper atmosphere have been monotonically declining from 1988 to 2006.

[1] J. L. Elliot, et al, The Astronomical Journal, 134 1-13 (2007)

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I'm no scientist. When I posted the OP, its link contained all I knew about the subject of warming on other planets. Now as a result of subsequent posts I wonder if all planets go through non-anthropogenic warming and cooling. I don't necessarily doubt AGW, but as a layperson, I am amazed at how much I am expected to swallow without explanation. I would be just as skeptical if I was told that GW is not anthropogenic.