Prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated by being stripped and taunted. In this case, we have UN workers forcing pre-pubescent girls to act in pornographic films. I guess you're right to draw disparallels. The girls being abused by the UN were actually innocent.Smurf said:I don't understand the comparison to Abu Ghraib.
So is this what you are talking about?loseyourname said:Prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated by being stripped and taunted.
WOW, I guess there really is no low to far to go! I guess it could be worse, oh wait that is the stuff we are not seeing.In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses
a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;
e. Threatening male detainees with rape;
f. Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;
g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
h. Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.
(T)he intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:
a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;
f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;
i. Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;
k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.
These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements.
The various detention facilities operated by the 800th MP Brigade have routinely held persons brought to them by Other Government Agencies (OGAs) without accounting for them, knowing their identities, or even the reason for their detention. The Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib called these detainees “ghost detainees.”
On at least one occasion, the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib held a handful of “ghost detainees” (6-8) for OGAs that they moved around within the facility to hide them from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) survey team. This maneuver was deceptive, contrary to Army Doctrine, and in violation of international law.
How many detainees were innocent?loseyourname said:In this case, we have UN workers forcing pre-pubescent girls to act in pornographic films. I guess you're right to draw disparallels. The girls being abused by the UN were actually innocent.
I think you're being a little blind here if you seriously don't think these are equally bad cases. I don't recall anyone saying that any abuse is acceptable. To be honest, I have no problem with most of the abuses listed from the prison (nonetheless, I recognize that it's illegal and shouldn't be done), but I certainly do have a great deal of a problem with child pornography. These children are not being detained in the middle of a war. Furthermore, you will see from the article that these abuses are far more widespread than the prison scandal. I'm not justifying Abu Ghraib or suggesting that it was not a bad thing, but I'm a little perturbed by people like smurf that seem to so flippantly ignore the abuses perpetrated by anyone other than the US while constantly highlighting every bad thing done by the US. To try and say that this isn't just as bad or even worse is pretty ridiculous.polyb said:How many detainees were innocent?
Regardless of the abuses of who and where, this is not acceptable by any means or justification. The fact that you guys are making some kind of statement at the expense of those people suggests that you are sick and demented. You people need some serious therapy!
:surprisedsid_galt said:I find it really curious that when the US commits a little mistake, it makes huge headlines and when the UN does something much worse, the issue is barely discussed. Looks like the world is prejudiced against the US.
I am never implying that both the situations weren't a disgrace. What I am saying is why is the US critisized so severely for even the smallest faults (not implying that Abu Ghraib was a small fault) while dirty things in the rest of the world barely make headlines especially in the media.the number 42 said::surprised
You've got to be kidding. Both situations are an absolute disgrace. The UN scandle absolutely must be sorted out, just as the "little mistake" made by the US military was. To turn this into a UN Versus US debate is the worst kind of opportunism. Please, this is really dragging PF into the mud.
Has anyone any concrete suggestions as to what to do to rectify the UN problem?
If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start a new thread? Or self-help group.sid_galt said:Looks like the world is prejudiced against the US.
Funny...I could have sworn that was the point...particularly considering the thread starters...thread starting...post "Surely this will stay in the news as long as the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal right? " But wtf do I know? :yuck:the number 42 said:If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start a new thread? Or self-help group.
To get back to the point
Not edifying but very revealing about the attitude of the world towards the US and their reasons.the number 42 said:Have it your way. But as far as I am concerned, having a self-pitying whinge about 'why the world hates us' on the back of a massive sex abuse scandal isn't very edifying, to say the least.