News UN's sex scandal

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I don't understand the comparison to Abu Ghraib.
 

loseyourname

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Smurf said:
I don't understand the comparison to Abu Ghraib.
Prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated by being stripped and taunted. In this case, we have UN workers forcing pre-pubescent girls to act in pornographic films. I guess you're right to draw disparallels. The girls being abused by the UN were actually innocent.
 
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loseyourname said:
Prisoners at Abu Ghraib were humiliated by being stripped and taunted.
So is this what you are talking about?

From the Taguba report
In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses

a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

(T)he intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:

a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i. Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements.

The various detention facilities operated by the 800th MP Brigade have routinely held persons brought to them by Other Government Agencies (OGAs) without accounting for them, knowing their identities, or even the reason for their detention. The Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib called these detainees “ghost detainees.”

On at least one occasion, the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib held a handful of “ghost detainees” (6-8) for OGAs that they moved around within the facility to hide them from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) survey team. This maneuver was deceptive, contrary to Army Doctrine, and in violation of international law.
WOW, I guess there really is no low to far to go! I guess it could be worse, oh wait that is the stuff we are not seeing.

HERE are the orders from the top! I guess that makes it all OK, right?


loseyourname said:
In this case, we have UN workers forcing pre-pubescent girls to act in pornographic films. I guess you're right to draw disparallels. The girls being abused by the UN were actually innocent.
How many detainees were innocent?

Regardless of the abuses of who and where, this is not acceptable by any means or justification. The fact that you guys are making some kind of statement at the expense of those people suggests that you are sick and demented. You people need some serious therapy!
:mad:
 

Gokul43201

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Your "orders from the top" link clearly states that physical beating, sexual contact/humiliation, etc. were not authorized by those at the top.

Clearly, the actions of the UN officials in the OPs link are despicable. It's starting to look like people in power, when made to work in 3rd world locations, start turning into animals. It's pathetic !
 

loseyourname

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polyb said:
How many detainees were innocent?

Regardless of the abuses of who and where, this is not acceptable by any means or justification. The fact that you guys are making some kind of statement at the expense of those people suggests that you are sick and demented. You people need some serious therapy!
:mad:
I think you're being a little blind here if you seriously don't think these are equally bad cases. I don't recall anyone saying that any abuse is acceptable. To be honest, I have no problem with most of the abuses listed from the prison (nonetheless, I recognize that it's illegal and shouldn't be done), but I certainly do have a great deal of a problem with child pornography. These children are not being detained in the middle of a war. Furthermore, you will see from the article that these abuses are far more widespread than the prison scandal. I'm not justifying Abu Ghraib or suggesting that it was not a bad thing, but I'm a little perturbed by people like smurf that seem to so flippantly ignore the abuses perpetrated by anyone other than the US while constantly highlighting every bad thing done by the US. To try and say that this isn't just as bad or even worse is pretty ridiculous.
 
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I don't flippantly ignore the abuses of other powers, I just think that the comparison to Abu Ghraib is a ridiculous attempt to make the US fit the "Big Friendly Giant who makes a few mistakes" stereotype while simultaneously putting down the UN. These two cases are completely unrelated and I think the article provided is extremely biased, dare I say blindly patriotic.

This is a terrible act but the article provided does not do it justice.
 
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As the http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404F.shtml [Broken] shows authorisation has been given by the highest echelon in the US administration, Abu Ghraib is a case of systematic practice of torture perpetrated by a country that champions human right.

The sexual abuse in Congo was the act of depraved individuals who happen to work for the UN. The UN was highlighted in the report in a bid to (further) undermine the authority of the organisation and indirectly justify the gun-ho, kick-ass unilateralism of the US.
 
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loseyourname

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Do ya guys see what I'm talking about? You're proving my point here. Someone starts a thread about sexual abuse by the UN and you come in saying that the article is unfair and again reminding us of the infinite evil of the US. You just don't care if bad things happen unless they're done by Americans.
 

PerennialII

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Your point has still some holes in it ... even if one would consider the UN peacekeepers and US military to act similarly (which in this case to certain extent seems to be true), the motivation of the US is quite a bit different from that of the UN. Let alone what transpires and what actions are seen feasible in the chain of command as Polly stated above. In any case this is horrid enough without any comparisons.
 

loseyourname

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Edit: Screw it. This isn't the place for this.
 
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I find it really curious that when the US commits a little mistake, it makes huge headlines and when the UN does something much worse, the issue is barely discussed. Looks like the world is prejudiced against the US.
 
sid_galt said:
I find it really curious that when the US commits a little mistake, it makes huge headlines and when the UN does something much worse, the issue is barely discussed. Looks like the world is prejudiced against the US.
:surprised

You've got to be kidding. Both situations are an absolute disgrace. The UN scandle absolutely must be sorted out, just as the "little mistake" made by the US military was. To turn this into a UN Versus US debate is the worst kind of opportunism. Please, this is really dragging PF into the mud.

Has anyone any concrete suggestions as to what to do to rectify the UN problem?
 
the number 42 said:
:surprised

You've got to be kidding. Both situations are an absolute disgrace. The UN scandle absolutely must be sorted out, just as the "little mistake" made by the US military was. To turn this into a UN Versus US debate is the worst kind of opportunism. Please, this is really dragging PF into the mud.

Has anyone any concrete suggestions as to what to do to rectify the UN problem?
I am never implying that both the situations weren't a disgrace. What I am saying is why is the US critisized so severely for even the smallest faults (not implying that Abu Ghraib was a small fault) while dirty things in the rest of the world barely make headlines especially in the media.

Bush was critisized so severely when WMDs were not found. When it was discovered that explosives had been moven out of Iraq before US invasion, the thing was in the mainstream news for hardly a week.

Why such a big bias and prejudice against the US?
 
sid_galt said:
Looks like the world is prejudiced against the US.
If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start a new thread? Or self-help group.

To get back to the point, what can be done to prevent this kind of abuse - under the auspices of the UN no less - happening again?
 

kat

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the number 42 said:
If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start a new thread? Or self-help group.

To get back to the point
Funny...I could have sworn that was the point...particularly considering the thread starters...thread starting...post "Surely this will stay in the news as long as the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal right? " But wtf do I know? :yuck:
 
Have it your way. But as far as I am concerned, having a self-pitying whinge about 'why the world hates us' on the back of a massive sex abuse scandal isn't very edifying, to say the least.
 
the number 42 said:
Have it your way. But as far as I am concerned, having a self-pitying whinge about 'why the world hates us' on the back of a massive sex abuse scandal isn't very edifying, to say the least.
Not edifying but very revealing about the attitude of the world towards the US and their reasons.
 

PerennialII

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The attitude towards the UN scandal is very much the same as towards the incidents of the US ... no matter who does this as individuals we can condemn any such action to the lowest inferno, I'd call it a natural reaction over 'revealing'. There shouldn't be a need to wallow on any "revealing" implications since at least as far as I'm concerned there are none, both occurrences are huge violations and need to be dealt with.
 

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