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News US and Cuba warming relations

  1. Apr 11, 2015 #1

    Astronuc

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    In historic face to face, Obama, Castro vow to turn the page
    http://news.yahoo.com/anticipation-grows-obama-castro-meet-saturday-panama-070657182--politics.html [Broken]

    Seems somewhat similar to Nixon in China.

    About time!

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 11, 2015 #2
    The communication is good. We'll see where it goes. Perhaps he just wants foreign aid.
     
  4. Apr 11, 2015 #3

    DaveC426913

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    Americans: It's a horrible place. Don't got there.

    The beaches aren't beautiful and pristine, the weather isn't fantastic, the flora isn't lush year-round, the people aren't warm and friendly, the crime isn't virtually non-existent, it does not have excellent education standards as well as some of the best health care in the world.

    These pics are all fake - Photoshopped:
    http://www.davesbrain.ca/adventures/15CayoLargo/index.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
  5. Apr 12, 2015 #4

    Doug Huffman

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    Cuba shows the folly of a political end making righteous the means to achieving it. The US is complicit but not solely culpable.
     
  6. Apr 12, 2015 #5

    Borg

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    Same for Cancun, Mexico. I have a bunch of fake, photoshopped pictures from there also. :oldtongue:
     
  7. Apr 12, 2015 #6

    mheslep

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    Hopefully this means a change to the usual political oppression and beatings from Raúl and the gang, though I doubt it.

    The Senator from Florida has some reality checks in case the party gets too noisy.

     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
  8. Apr 13, 2015 #7

    lisab

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    I'm more optimistic. Sunlight is an excellent disinfectant! If the place is crawling with American tourists, it will be much more difficult to maintain the secrecy necessary to apply that kind of oppression.

    Tourists will bring cash, which will also be helpful. But, IMO: Cuba needs access to the internet more than it needs tourists.
     
  9. Apr 13, 2015 #8

    mheslep

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    A faux democracy has need for much secrecy; Cuba has no such need. Tourists will bring cash, which *may* be helpful to the Cuban people, or instead it will fund the Castros, allow them to build up the military, re-enable military intervention abroad. The usual method seems to be confiscation of incoming foreign cash for local currency, criminalize citizens holding dollars.

    I favor the change in US-Cuba relations because the status-quo was not accomplishing any positive outcomes. But especially given the possibility of a change for the worse, I'm sharply critical of how this change has been obtained, with no leverage at all obtained for the betterment of the Cuban people or political prisoners.
     
  10. Apr 13, 2015 #9

    DaveC426913

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    I wonder how many people have an accurate portrayal of Cuba.

    They are quite well-educated - their education is funded by the government,
    They are quite healthy - their health care so good that it is a prime spot for "medical tourism" - people fly from all over the world to seek their health care.
    They all have jobs - their unemployment rate is below 4%.
    They all have houses - provided by the government.
    They have their staple foods provided for.
    And, to a man, they love their leader.

    While they are not rich, they are actually very well-provided for by their government.
    And the reason why they are not rich has a lot to do with the American embargo.
     
  11. Apr 13, 2015 #10

    OmCheeto

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    I almost made it to Cuba once.

    pf_gitmo.jpg
    Sunrise over Guantanamo Bay
    ≈1978
    View from the USS Saratoga


    Well, this is cool. I just found a modern, matching image.
    SunriseFromBouy1.jpg
    And sunrise from Bouy 1, near the mouth of Guantanamo Bay
    ≈2008​

    I'd always just taken their word for it that that land mass was Cuba.
    I don't even think I knew of a place called "Gitmo" until then.
    I thought at first, we might be invading again, or something stupid like that.
     
  12. Apr 13, 2015 #11

    russ_watters

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    With Cuba and Iran, it looks to me like Obama just wants to be able to say, "Look, I made a deal!" regardless of what the deal is. I don't favor deals where we give the other side everything they want and they give us nothing.
     
  13. Apr 14, 2015 #12

    mheslep

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    Gather that information sitting on the beach, "to a man"? How about those in prison? They love their leader too?
     
  14. Apr 14, 2015 #13

    mheslep

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    Recently made (some months ago) video of some retired American's traveling to Cuba by sail boat, meeting many charming Cubans. Shot by professional small film maker Ashley Love.

    Part I
    First interaction with Cubans begins here:


    Part II
     
  15. Apr 14, 2015 #14
    Who will succeed the Castros? A lot of good could happen in the next change of command.
     
  16. Apr 14, 2015 #15

    mheslep

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    I'm trying to think of a peaceful regime change for the better in a dictatorship that's occurred in the world without a large amount of pressure from inside or outside demanding change for the better. Nothing comes to mind. Otherwise a Kim Jong-un replaces a Kim Jong-il, Caligula replaces Tiberius.
     
  17. Apr 14, 2015 #16
    Hard to say. Cases of stand off are more memorable, than cases where there was a mixture of sanction threats and backdoor diplomacy to make a deal.
     
  18. Apr 14, 2015 #17

    russ_watters

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    I wonder how many of those stats are accurate.
     
  19. Apr 14, 2015 #18

    DaveC426913

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    Well, they're not stats they're merely observation - discussed with Cuban residents, as well as family and friends, some of whom have quite a bit of personal experience with off-resort Cuban natives (my aunt was involved with a local Cuban for a long time, enough to consider moving there). We here in Canada surely have a more open relationship with Cuba.

    But is there any reason to doubt the claims? I mean, other than because it's Cuba and therefore suspect?
     
  20. Apr 14, 2015 #19

    OmCheeto

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    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-removes-cuba-state-sponsor-terror-list-190658891--politics.html [Broken]

    They're terrorists? I did not know that.
    I saw in the last few months that they sent a slew of doctors to Africa for the Ebola crisis. I thought that was very nice of them.

    hmmm....
    (google google google)

    It looks to me as though the Cubans are not terrorists.

    Has anyone here ever met a Cuban, aside from DaveC?
    I've discovered that you can learn a lot about a country, by talking to the natives.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  21. Apr 14, 2015 #20

    WWGD

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    That means they support different groups of terrorists than the ones we support: Our terrorists are their freedom fighters, and vice versa. Our secrecy is necessary to protect ourselves and state secrets, theirs is the result of an oppressive regime...and viceversa. Ed Snowden is a traitor, but any Cuban speaking out is a hero.... And Castro arrived in power just because he was a bad guy, nothing to see with the island being taken over by gangsters as their playground. It is an endless game of double standards and hypocrisy on both sides.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
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