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US forces use of Chemical weapons in Fallujah

  1. Nov 8, 2005 #1
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 8, 2005 #2

    russ_watters

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    We've had the napalm/Mk77 discussion before. Do a search for it.
     
  4. Nov 8, 2005 #3

    cronxeh

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    this has nothing to do with that?
     
  5. Nov 8, 2005 #4
    stupid The Entire Video Clip OF THE NAPALM Was Just From The Movie "hearts And Minds" Which Was A Documentary On The Vietnam War (it Also Won An Academy Award). These Are Not From Iraq. Do You Believe Any Old Garbage You Find On The Internet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2005
  6. Nov 8, 2005 #5

    cronxeh

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    you see, unless they clearly specified "burning types of bombs or ammunitions or rockets" - to which I'm sure the US would never sign - then they can use any mixture of organic molecules. This is all psychological.
     
  7. Nov 8, 2005 #6

    Art

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    The opening clip is from Vietnam as the commentary says. The rest of the video including the burned bodies is from Iraq unless you think Vietnam is a country of desert and mosques populated by Arabs.
    One would almost think your post is a deliberate cynical attempt to rubbish a perfectly valid report. I wonder why? :rolleyes:
     
  8. Nov 8, 2005 #7
    Please watch the entire video before commenting.
     
  9. Nov 8, 2005 #8
    Hey,,, are you talking about Napalm or about: WHITE PHOSPHORUS use in fallujha??

    This video is not from a movie, It's REAL
    mms://mediaserver.kataweb.it/repubblica/esteri/2005/fallujah_high.wmv

    PD: i hope the administrators use the policy fairly in all members, not only on maxs and TSM...
     
  10. Nov 8, 2005 #9

    russ_watters

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    No. The first 30 seconds was all Vietnam-era propaganda, and the video is several minutes long. I will not sit through several minutes of propaganda, searching for a point.

    Besides, there is no need: the text under the video makes it's point and it's point is both old, and has been argued to death. There are 5 (related) points:

    1. Did the official lie or was he just mistaken about the use of Mk77s. (debatable)
    2. Is a Mk77 "napalm"? (No.)
    3. Is napalm a "chemical weapon"? (No.)
    4. Is the Mk77 a chemical weapon? (No.)
    5. Is the Mk77 an illegal weapon? (No.)

    Go through the previous argument and if you have anything new to add, by all means make your argument.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  11. Nov 8, 2005 #10

    Astronuc

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    The video is quite distressing, and I am heartsick over such horrible acts against women and children.

    The point of the video is not the use of naplam specifically, but the use of incendiary (napalm) and chemical weapons against 'civilians'.

    And that is apparently what happened in Fallujah. Apparently, the Army decided ALL persons were targets - including women and children.

    In addition to some insurgents (legitimate targets in a military conflict), there are many bodies of women and children, some burned, but others ashen grey without burn injuries - much like the images of Kurds gassed by Hussein's air force. However, that ashen color can be caused by a blast wave (severe concussive force).

    Perhaps the use of Vietnam footage at first is a turn off for some, but it is pretty accurate. As in Vietnam, and now in Iraq, those dropping bombs do not check to see if the target is civilian or military. Those bombs are simply dropped based on orders.

    As far as I know, over 600 civilians were killed in Fallujah, perhaps more than the number of insurgents, and this is despite the comment of a US general that there were no civilian deaths or casualties.

    It is also alleged that US/Iraqi intelligence have been confiscating any media coverage of the assault on Fallujah. This seems to be Mi Lai all over again.
     
  12. Nov 8, 2005 #11
    I am still somewhat in shock after viewing, because it is all to real. And it is all to now. This is not how humans should treat one another!
     
  13. Nov 8, 2005 #12

    PerennialII

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    ...... always stunned how we can as a society be so inclined to war and 'mayhem', when the results seem to be the same and predictable - like in this very case. Suppose people come equipped with on/off switches for humaneness.
     
  14. Nov 8, 2005 #13

    Astronuc

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    That's one reason why I will NEVER serve in any military.

    Unfortunately, too many people (e.g. George Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) seem to find such horrors acceptable.

    Cheney and Rumsfeld are hold overs from the Vietnam era. Same story - different day.
     
  15. Nov 8, 2005 #14

    russ_watters

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    If you have some facts to present, present them, otherwise retract that!

    Have you even read any of the previous thread yet?

    I watched a few more minutes of the video - there is no coherent point being made about the Mk77 - it is a catch-all anti-war propaganda piece.

    War is a terrible thing, guys - no one is arguing that. But lies and propaganda are not a good source for forming your opinions. So if you want to argue that war is terrible, you will get no argument. If you want to argue that the Mk77 is a terrible weapon, you will get no argument. If you want to argue that the Mk77 is a "chemical weapon" and that the US used "chemical weapons" in Fallujah, you'll get an argument, because neither is true.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  16. Nov 8, 2005 #15
    Russ, do you find acceptable the us of WP over cities with civilian population?? (and not as a light in the night but as a way of exterminating everything that lives in a determinated area.)

    mms://mediaserver.kataweb.it/repubblica/esteri/2005/fallujah_high.wmv
     
  17. Nov 8, 2005 #16

    russ_watters

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    What you are implying is not what it is used for, so I can neither agree nor disagree with your statement. Make a plain, factual statement about how it is used and I will tell you if I agree with the practice.

    To be more specific:

    "over cities" - implies that it is dropped from airplanes as an airborne incendiary. AFAIK, it is only used in grenade and signaling artillery/tracer form.
    "as a way of exterminating everything that lives in a determinated area" - implies a wide coverage weapon weapon, designed to kill. That's not what grenades are like and not what incendiary grenades are for.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  18. Nov 8, 2005 #17

    russ_watters

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    Here is the previous conversation, for those interested:

    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=80197&highlight=napalm

    After it spiraled out of control, El Hombre Invisible wrote-up a good summary:
    I don't quite agree with everything in that post (specifically, the last part), but otherwise it is a good summary of the issue.

    Skyhunter, you signed up after that conversation ended, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't realize what you were walking into when you posted this. But now that you have the link, please read it before proceeding. The site you posted essentially lied to you and fed you propaganda and you fell for it. And more importantly: apply some critical thinking before so hastily buying into, then posting the contents of a propaganda site here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  19. Nov 8, 2005 #18

    You didn't see the video in the link i posted right????? they where launched by artillery over the city of falluja, please look at the video, and you will note that they are not used as an artillery tracer but as some kind of WP cluster bomb.

    Again, LOOK AT THE VIDEO.. (Till the end, there you can see what is the real use.)
     
  20. Nov 8, 2005 #19
    I have not read the other thread but I will.

    This is not however about using MK77 in Baghdad. This is video from Fallujah where white phosphorus was used indiscriminately as a weapon.

    Again, I would ask you to watch the video before commenting.
     
  21. Nov 8, 2005 #20
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