US military confirms more horrific pics & vids

  • #1
The Bush administration was bracing itself last night for the release of new pictures and video footage from Abu Ghraib which show US soldiers having sex with an Iraqi woman prisoner, troops almost beating a prisoner to death, and the rape of young boys by Iraqi guards at the jail.
Senior officials have warned that the new images and details of the abuse and torture at the prison west of Baghdad will be even more shocking than those already released. They will undoubtedly place even more pressure on President George Bush and his beleaguered Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, as they desperately try to limit the political damage from the growing scandal.
NBC News has quoted military officials as saying that the new photographsalso show US soldiers "acting inappropriately with a dead body". This may refer to a picture, which The Washington Post described but did not publish, of Sabrina Harman, one of seven reservists charged with abuses, posing with thumbs up next to a decaying corpse.
NBC also reported that the rape of young boys by Iraqi guards, apparently in a special section of the prison, had been filmed by US soldiers.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=519448 [Broken]

You can deny and apologize and fence-sit all you want. It really doesn't matter what you think anymore.
 
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Answers and Replies

  • #2
member 5645
Chemicalsuperfreak said:
You can deny and apologize and fence-sit all you want. It really doesn't matter what you think anymore.
Who are you talking to? That is a great way to begin a debate in a forum made for such.
 
  • #3
344
2
These events are tragic, but Chemicalsuperfreak may have a point. What can the everyday person do about such things? My opinion cant stop these events from occuring as most of this stuff lies half a world away from where I am at. Powerless to protect, powerless to defend.

Lets just hope that the people with power know what they're doing.
 
  • #4
18
0
Horrifying and sickening to say the least. Then again, that is what war is isnt it? Each side seems to attempt to do the worst things possible to the other...usually civilians come out as being the group that is harmed.
For example, where the Iraqi's practically roasted the bodies of american engineers, four of which were from South Carolina (i believe...it could have been north) and hung their dead bodies on a bridge.

What the hell is wrong with our world?
 
  • #5
Chemicalsuperfreak said:
It really doesn't matter what you think anymore.
Thank you, I will do my best to see that you are afforded this same courtesy.
 
  • #6
22
0
Lets just hope that the people with power know what they're doing.
Of course they do. They know that they can send other people to war in far away lands, where people will be abused and killed and such, and they will make a profit. They know exactly what they're doing.
 
  • #7
90
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The Chinese was downtrodden by the Japanese in WWII in the most unfathomably horrific way. There were incidents of civilian pregnant women whose babies were ripped out from the uteruses by the Japanese soldiers with bayonets on the street, just for fun, amongst all the incidents of rape, mutilation, experiments of deadly virus on the civilians and forced prostitution (organised whore houses) for the sexual gratification of the solders in Burma, Hong Kong, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and different parts of China. It is very natural to hate the Japanese, until one starts to think what had change them from normal people (farmers, students) to sick distorted monsters. I always think unless a country is defending itself from aggressive offensive, wars should be avoided at all costs.
 
  • #8
member 5645
Polly said:
I always think unless a country is defending itself from aggressive offensive, wars should be avoided at all costs.

But what if there is a threat to an ally?
 
  • #9
18
0
Then do not go back on your promise to defend an ally. While your country may be dragged into war, you shouldnt pledge an alliance if you are going to go back on it. Untrustworthy, lying countries are not good ones.
 
  • #10
Nereid
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
3,367
2
Among the many disturbing things is the report - by one of the armed forces' own internal investigations? - that what was going on was institutional and systematic, *not* the behaviour of a few 'rotten apples' .... and this report was available to senior commanders when? Yet Myers and Rummy professed ignorance?? I mean, a credible report, by a general (?), containing damning conclusions takes *months* to crawl up the chain of command?

No senior official has lost his (or her) job over the 9/11 intelligence failures; now no senior official will lose his job over the Iraq torture scandal?
 
  • #11
90
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phatmonky said:
But what if there is a threat to an ally?
Not being a native speaker I have demonstrated on a few occassions that I can easily got hold of the wrong end of a stick altogether. So I need to ask you for clarification, are you referring to the WWII or the Iraqi War? Which ally? Are you saying that pre-emptive strikes are justifiable? Not to me.
 
  • #12
member 5645
Polly said:
Not being a native speaker I have demonstrated on a few occassions that I can easily got hold of the wrong end of a stick altogether. So I need to ask you for clarification, are you referring to the WWII or the Iraqi War? Which ally? Are you saying that pre-emptive strikes are justifiable? Not to me.

You made the statement that there should only be war if there is a direct aggressive offensive made to your country.


My response is that I also see a validation for war if an ally is attacked or if a countries livliehood is attacked (blockades don't have to be done in a defensve manner, but could cripple a country). I also believe that an implementation of international law as a last resort is a validation for war.

Right now, in Sudan, there is genocide going on. This doesn't affect me directly, it doesn't threaten an ally country, but it DOES require a response from the UN (if anyone will have the balls to use the word GENOCIDE) by the UN's own laws. That response, in my opinion, would be fully justified in being a militartistic one.
 
  • #13
22
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My response is that I also see a validation for war if an ally is attacked or if a countries livliehood is attacked (blockades don't have to be done in a defensve manner, but could cripple a country).
So Iraq had the right to make a "pre-emptive strike" against the USA? And all Saddam's allies, states or otherwise, have a right to do so as well?

I also believe that an implementation of international law as a last resort is a validation for war.
Well, that was ignored.
 
  • #14
90
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phatmonky said:
My response is that I also see a validation for war if an ally is attacked or if a countries livliehood is attacked (blockades don't have to be done in a defensve manner, but could cripple a country). I also believe that an implementation of international law as a last resort is a validation for war.

Right now, in Sudan, there is genocide going on. This doesn't affect me directly, it doesn't threaten an ally country, but it DOES require a response from the UN (if anyone will have the balls to use the word GENOCIDE) by the UN's own laws. That response, in my opinion, would be fully justified in being a militartistic one.
CAVEAT:NOTHING PERSONAL

Validation for war on the basis of:
1. alliance
Depends on the terms of the alliance, whether your ally is at fault in bring about the attack etc. Alliance is not an automatic ticket for violence for me.
2. blockade
Definitely not good enough to wage war for me. What is more important, human lives or economic growth?
3. international law
Yes, that would be validating.

You are in a rash to punish all the warlords/corrupted administration in Africa again. But let me ask you, if you have plentiful supply of food and materials in Sudan, ample investment and education and employment opportunity, why would anybody want to plunder and rob and kill off everyone else? Has the US done everything to help Sudan economically? The US produces more than enough food to feed the whole world, and much of it is locked up in warehouses waiting to rot. My apologies for the sacarcism but I honestly wonder why the US is so indifferent with the pol/eco/soc status of Sudan and yet so pro-active about Iraq.
 
  • #15
member 5645
Adam said:
So Iraq had the right to make a "pre-emptive strike" against the USA? And all Saddam's allies, states or otherwise, have a right to do so as well?
Absolutely.
 
  • #16
member 5645
Polly said:
I honestly wonder why the US is so indifferent with the pol/eco/soc status of Sudan and yet so pro-active about Iraq.

I'll reply to the rest of your statement tomorrow, when I have more time.
For now, I'll remind you that we are the ONLY nation on the security coucil that has called for a condemning of the acts happening in Sudan, and ALL other countries have blocked, or abstained, on such a move - we are the MOST pro active about Sudan, al beit less pro active than we were about Iraq. Either way, it's hardly indifference.
 
  • #17
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Funny, the USA is the state which has blocked all the resolutions against Israel, for their ethnic cleansing activities.
 
  • #18
Adam said:
Funny, the USA is the state which has blocked all the resolutions against Israel, for their ethnic cleansing activities.
What ethnic cleansing? This is the first I have heard of this.
 
  • #19
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hughes johnson said:
What ethnic cleansing? This is the first I have heard of this.
ethnic cleansing
n.

The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnic cleansing
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=1&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1904&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=2&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1524&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=4&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1736&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=7&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=804&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1 [Broken]
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,137218-1-9,00.html
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990902/1999090222.html [Broken]
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/6686f45896f15dbc852567ae00530132/7738125ef7c2ca9bc1256c4b00470a79?OpenDocument [Broken]
http://abc.net.au/news/2002/11/item20021127185951_1.htm [Broken]
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/4227466.htm [Broken]
http://www.ummah.com/inewsletter/massacres/palestine/index14.htm [Broken]
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/breaking_news/4227466.htm
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/04/News/News.44530.html [Broken]
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/95/148/05_3.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/020926/afp/020926130246top.html [Broken]

Naturally I have dozens more links to news articles about Israel's ethnic cleansing activities. You can see a collection of news articles at http://scaramouche.blogeasy.com
 
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  • #20
member 5645
Adam said:
Funny, the USA is the state which has blocked all the resolutions against Israel, for their ethnic cleansing activities.

Always looking for a way to demonize us, eh Adam?
All the UN has to do is use the 'G' word and they are all required to help (Rwanda was called "ACTS of Genocide" in order to stop from being required to help)

P.S. Not one of your links mentions the G word or ethnic cleansing.
 
  • #21
adrenaline
Science Advisor
100
3
Back to the subject..... my main concern is for those Americans still in Iraq. These atrocities will fuel the already burning hatred for Americans and I foresee many more attacks against our troops and possible torture and humiliation for those that will be captured. It makes me wonder if the films and pictures should be revealed only to those resposible for bringing the transgressors for trial and punishment, but then, the public also needs to know as well..... I guess. Don't know what the right answer is.
 
  • #22
22
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phatmonky said:
P.S. Not one of your links mentions the G word or ethnic cleansing.
Read them again. And please think before you type.
 
  • #23
Nereid
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
3,367
2
adrenaline said:
Back to the subject..... my main concern is for those Americans still in Iraq. These atrocities will fuel the already burning hatred for Americans and I foresee many more attacks against our troops and possible torture and humiliation for those that will be captured. It makes me wonder if the films and pictures should be revealed only to those resposible for bringing the transgressors for trial and punishment, but then, the public also needs to know as well..... I guess. Don't know what the right answer is.
Isn't it true that (at least some of) the photos etc were taken deliberately, as part of the torture? The intention being that unless the suspect 'talked', the humiliating photos would be copied and posted publicly in the neighbourhood where the suspect lived. In other words, there was a 'book of best (interrogation) practice' used by the interrogators, drawn up and endorsed by someone (senior?) in Rummy's department (or Myers' chain of command). Or maybe it was the ex-CIA 'independent contractors', brought in by Wolfie to improve 'efficiency'?
 
  • #24
22
0
Ours news reported that at least 25 POWs have been killed in USA custody in these camps in Afghanistan and Iraq. One had his head bashed in with a rock.
 
  • #25
member 5645
Adam said:
Read them again. And please think before you type.

Still doesn't.
 

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