USA Black Budgets

  • Thread starter tumor
  • Start date
  • #1
123
1
Is it true that USA army has huge secret budget,couple billion dollars?
And watching now a guy who with 20 millions built craft that almost reached space,does makes me wonder if all those UFO which are reported maybe are, in reality advanced military spacecrafts

I am not a conspiracy theorist but look:space shuttle is just a very convienient cover to a more highly advanced projects.
Americans and other nations looking at the shuttles are very impressed by what they see ,and recent crash reinforces feeling of conquering space a very difficult task.In truth shuttles are in my feeling old junk who should be displayed in museums.

What you people think? :wink:
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
We absolutely have black budgets. We wouldn't want to give away our secrets would we?

No doubt, many UFO and other anomalous sightings have been due to secret military aircraft and projects.

My dad saw technology in the Korean War that was only made public some twenty five [or so] years later. Also, Consider that stealth aircraft technology actually began with the SR71 back in the sixties. I think the first time that the public heard of stealth technology was in the late eighties.
 
  • #3
184
0
I always wondered if the str-80 mission where the missle is filmed shooting (or at least trying to shoot) a ufo, could be a blackbudget starwars test of some kind. Questions odviously need to be asked, but as use'all none seems to care, whats wrong with the world :uhh:
 
  • #4
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Or...it might have been a thruster and ice particles. :biggrin:
 
  • #5
184
0
Ivan Seeking said:
Or...it might have been a thruster and ice particles. :biggrin:
heheh yeah or light refracted from venus, i actually saw a guy from nasa talking about it on tv when they first released it and he was convinced it was nothing to do with ice particles atall. Ive also heard independant scientists rubbish that view as well.
 
  • #6
193
0
what is this about ice and a missile?
 
  • #7
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Here is a link to the video in question.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1074.htm

On the video you will see a small object drifting slowly from right to left. Next, a flash is seen and the object almost instantly changes direction up and to the right. Finally, another quickly moving object appears to pass where the first object was before changing course.

Of course we have the first problem of depth perception. How far away and how large are the objects seen? The flash is allegedly a thruster firing that then causes the ice particle to change course. Some people believe that the ice particle is an alien spacecraft that dodges a missile attack from earth [the second object]. I see no evidence to support such a giant leap of faith.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #8
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Overdose said:
heheh yeah or light refracted from venus, i actually saw a guy from nasa talking about it on tv when they first released it and he was convinced it was nothing to do with ice particles atall. Ive also heard independant scientists rubbish that view as well.
Post your evidence. I have seen one or two renegade scientist who think this is something, but the official NASA explanation as well as interviews with the astronauts who were there say otherwise. If you know of significant details in this video that contradict these explanations I would like to hear about it.
 
  • #9
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Note also that in the first sequence shown in the video, if you look in the lower right quadrant of the picture you will see another eight or so "objects" moving slowly in the same direction as the first object considered earlier. After the flash of light, these eight objects also change direction precisely as does the first. Next, in the lower middle of the screen, after the flash an eleventh object is seen moving quickly across the field in precisely the direction as the "missile" mentioned earlier. To me this all seems to be consistent with the explanation offered by NASA - ice particles in motion and deflected by a thruster blast.
 
  • #10
The Video

Thats PINE GAP and the "Star Wars" BRILLIANT PEBBLES RAIL GUN stationed there.
I've posted a link to the "Star Wars" Rail Gun (from the 80s before).

Here's the link (from Bob's CLASSIC Book);
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/rephotogallery/rdt/64.html [Broken]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #11
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
If you wish to make claims then you need to support your claims with evidence. I am going to start deleting unsubstantiated, random claims of secret knowledge.
 
  • #12
184
0
I find it shocking that educated people can arrive at such convoluted conclusions such as the 'ice partibles' theory.
First of all the 'ice particle' is too far away to be effected by any thrusts from the nasa craft. Secondly why is this ice particle traveling at speed in the atmosphere? its not just in orbit, it's clearly traveling under its own speed. And your right there are other 'ice particles' in the video at roughly the same altitude which can be seen speeding up and slowing down, again clearly moving under their own power.

I'll have a look for the links i should have somewhere to the analysis of this video and post back when i find them
 
Last edited:
  • #13
184
0
http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/pdfs/JSE_STS-48.pdf [Broken]

found it :wink:
this pdf gives a pretty even handed dissection of the video and makes some very good points.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #14
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Overdose said:
I find it shocking that educated people can arrive at such convoluted conclusions such as the 'ice partibles' theory.
Really? I would think that an objective posture demands that we do so unless or until solid proof exists otherwise. The ice particles explanation seems pretty reasonable to me. Of course the devil is always in the details.

First of all the 'ice particle' is too far away to be effected by any thrusts from the nasa craft.
Why do you think so? In fact it they were far away we may not be able to see them at all. How are you judging the distance to, and size of these objects?

Secondly why is this ice particle traveling at speed in the atmosphere? its not just in orbit, it's clearly traveling under its own speed.
I don't think this is clear at all. Why do you think so? How do you gauge the actual distance to the objects? Your entire argument rests on this point.

And your right there are other 'ice particles' in the video at roughly the same altitude which can be seen speeding up and slowing down, again clearly moving under their own power.
This is news to me. I will read your pdf file and review the video.

Thanks for the post. :smile:
 
  • #15
Njorl
Science Advisor
258
10
I think the majority of the Black Budget is spent on pork-barrel stuff that is so embarassing that it needs to be kept secret. That and assassinations.

Futuristic superweapons? We want people to know we have those, even if we don't really have them.

Njorl
 
  • #16
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Njorl said:
I think the majority of the Black Budget is spent on pork-barrel stuff that is so embarassing that it needs to be kept secret. That and assassinations.
Well, I never said anything about efficient spending. Still, the stealth program was quite the success I think. LASER systems that are capable of shooting down missiles allegedly are being installed as we speak. I even wonder a little if the patriot III is a LASER system. Has anyone ever seen one? I 've never really looked for information.
 
  • #17
russ_watters
Mentor
19,810
6,211
tumor said:
Is it true that USA army has huge secret budget,couple billion dollars?
And watching now a guy who with 20 millions built craft that almost reached space,does makes me wonder if all those UFO which are reported maybe are, in reality advanced military spacecrafts

I am not a conspiracy theorist but look:space shuttle is just a very convienient cover to a more highly advanced projects.
Americans and other nations looking at the shuttles are very impressed by what they see ,and recent crash reinforces feeling of conquering space a very difficult task.In truth shuttles are in my feeling old junk who should be displayed in museums.

What you people think? :wink:
Most black projects are just code-names on budget reports. It takes some effort, but people can piece together how much is spent on it. You can't very well say money is going to build a monument in Dayton and then divert the money elsewhere: people ask where the monument is (or: 'why did my project get shafted on the money - its in the budget?').

Re: sightings. Its no surpirse that a high number of UFOs are sighted in the midwest. That's were we test our new toys. In the late 70s, early 80s, a lot of people saw trianglular shaped UFOs. The F-117 is triangular. Hmm....
 
Last edited:
  • #18
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
russ_watters said:
Re: sightings. Its no surpirse that a high number of UFOs are sighted in the midwest. That's were we test our new toys. In the late 70s, early 80s, a lot of people saw trianglular shaped UFOs. The F-117 is triangular. Hmm....
I agree with one modifier: Whatever triangular craft many people are seeing lately is no F-117. When we finally know what it is this will explain a large number of sightings I think. My best guess is a large, triangular, star-field camouflaged blimp-like craft that uses an exotic form of propulsion. By exotic I mean the earthly kind. It seems to be silent and capable of significant acceleration. Reliable reports of this craft typically include descriptions of flight characteristics that are not aerodynamic - they really sound more like the characteristics of a blimp to me. The Illinois police chased this thing all around the Highland Ill [White AFB] area one night. I think I might have even seen one near Beale AFB, in Northern California, in 1979.

Edit: One key detail is that it can hover silently. This thing has scared the heck out of many, many people - including our friend Art Bell btw.

Another key detail is that most reports of this type of craft do not suggest a technology beyond us mere humans.
 
Last edited:
  • #19
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Like this:

They are big, black, and triangular. In UFO folklore they are proof-positive that planet Earth is a rest stop for joyriding, but road-weary, extraterrestrials.

A just released study by the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), based in Las Vegas, Nevada, sheds new light on the dark and mysterious craft. They offer a more down-to-earth hypothesis.

NIDS researchers contend that these type vehicles are lighter-than-air, blimp-style craft of the U.S. military's making. Likely powered by "electrokinetic" drive, the lifting body-shaped airships have been skirting the skies from perhaps the early to mid 1980s.

Illinois sighting... [continued]
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html

Also, that was Scott AFB, not White AFB.
 
  • #20
Unsubstantiated?

Unsubstantiated?

You mean, like, some of your claims?;

Posted by Ivan Seeking;
“We absolutely have black budgets.”

Or;

“My dad saw technology in the Korean War that was only made public some twenty five [or so] years later.”

Or;

“Some people believe that the ice particle is an alien spacecraft that dodges a missile attack from earth [the second object]. I see no evidence to support such a giant leap of faith.”


My claims ARE NOT unsubstantiated, regarding the Rail Gun and Pine Gap;
Here’s some evidence. Have a look at it;
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/...04-4519573-9349522?v=glance&tag=pfamazon01-20

Watch Hoagland’s analysis of the video (at the end of his U.N. Briefing).

So;
“If you wish to make claims then you need to support your claims with evidence. I am going to start deleting unsubstantiated, random claims of secret knowledge.”

I think, you’ll find, that my claims are quite well backed up, by a couple of reasonable scientists (let alone, Military).

But if you don’t think this is good enough, HELL – DELETE AWAY!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #21
37
0
I find myself actually agreeing with Ivan for once. There are definitely black projects.

"We want other people to know we have those, even if we don't really have them."
-Njorl

No we don't. Do we want Kim Jong Il to know that we can kill him in less than an hour and his 3rd world military can't do anything about it? No, he would go (even more) insane.

Did we want to tell the Soviets that their massive air defense network was now obsolete because we had developed stealth technology? NO! They would have developed larger and more complex network that may have prepared them.

Please Njorl, a little common sense now and then goes a long way.


Oh yea, LONG LIVE AURORA!
 
  • #22
Yeh, I agree with you Allah, there ARE Black Budgets.
The "Star Wars" Rail Gun I refer to, was a product of just such a Black Budget!

I was just pointing out to Ivan Seeking, that a lot of his claims are unprovable as well.
 
  • #23
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Nommos Prime (Dogon) said:
Unsubstantiated?

You mean, like, some of your claims?;
Settle down. I made no claims of secret knowledge. You also implied a connection between the video and the rail gun when none is shown.
 
  • #24
There IS a connection claimed on the end of Hoagland's UN Briefing video.

Check it out...
 
  • #25
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,213
176
Did you provide a link for this or just a link to purchase the video?
 

Related Threads on USA Black Budgets

  • Last Post
3
Replies
52
Views
7K
  • Last Post
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
5
Views
854
Replies
68
Views
7K
  • Last Post
Replies
10
Views
809
  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
4K
Top